Mobil 1 Question in Excellence. Do not pass 3K miles

[Perfectlap]

I saw an interesting question to the editor published in the latest Excellence.
A straightforward question but the answer made a not too subtle dig on Mobil 1's longevity.

I won't quote it directly but here's the jist of it

Reader: [I have a 2003 Boxster S in Phoenix. It has 54K miles driven daily.
Engine doesn't leak or burn oil. I change the Mobil 1 0-40 every 3K miles.
During summer I noticed a rattle after parking for 6 hours but goes away.
It's been 110 F for over 40 days now and I like your opinion on high viscosity to address the rattle. I am considering Castro Syntec going forward during summer and Mobil 1 0-40 during winter.]

Answer:
[We feel 3K miles is a good call given your choice of brand and formula.
We recommend 5-40 year round. However we prefer Motul 8100 X-Max or some other boutique type of synthetic. ZDDP levels are being reduced in mass marketed oils and the result we see are more problems and wear, especially in the valvetrain. The smaller boutique type lubricant makes are keeping ZDDP up above 1,250 PPM and preferably 1350 PPM and higher..]

[ProjectM96]

Ive used a mix of 0-40 and 5w-40 from different brands. I just use whatever I could find whether it is Castrol, Mobile One, or another brand. 93,000 miles and runs great. No metal in oil filter or magnetic drain plug.

[Flavor 987S]

I believe the "Reader" has BIGGER issues regarding his new rattle. It's not his oil.

[ProjectM96]

Originally Posted by Flavor 987S

I believe the "Reader" has BIGGER issues regarding his new rattle. It's not his oil.

+1
I agree.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Flavor 987S

I believe the "Reader" has BIGGER issues regarding his new rattle. It's not his oil.

I would not bet on that. Along with dropping ZDDP levels, M1 products have shown a drop in film strength, particularly in the 0W-40 oil. And, in general, any given oil’s film strength decreases with miles, particularly under either high heat or shear conditions, which the car in question was obviously seeing. Higher cold weights (5W or 10W as opposed to 0W) oils from a given manufacturer also tend to demonstrate higher film strength as well. That is also why they suggested the Motul product in a higher weight, which is a Group V oil with both higher ZDDP (1200-1300 ppm) and superior film strength when compared to M1.

[CoBeerToad]

While doing a little independant research on ZDDP (I'm in the oil business, but not the chemistry side), I found an interesting article concerning ZDDP.

http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oils_and_zddp.pdf

[thstone]

The more that I read and learn about oil, the less that I seem to know.

[Flavor 987S]

Originally Posted by thstone

The more that I read and learn about oil, the less that I seem to know.

Funny. Good one.

I thinks it's pretty simple, actually.

1) Use a quality full synthetic oil, of the proper viscosity for your car & climate
2) OEM oil filters
3) Change it yearly or every 5-7,000 miles

Check you oil levels. Don't hammer until at full op temp. Drive it. Rinse & repeat.

If ya want to get all fancy pants, run a magnetic drain plug and do Blackstone Used Oil Analysis.

No secrets. No mysteries. Simple.

[shadrach74]

I have a rattle at start up and I except it as a byproduct of having hydraulic lifters and an an engine that is positioned close to the ground in a configuration the puts the lifters very close to the sheet metal at its mid section without much in the way of sound deadening material.

Valve train noise on start-up is a fact of life with hydraulic lifters. If your engine gets quieter on start up after going to a higher viscosity oil it’s not likely due to superior lubrication, is due to the fact that the higher viscosity oil is less likely to flow out of the lifters after shutdown. Higher viscosity might mean reduced noise at start-up, but that would likely coincide with reduced flow (note, flow is related to, but not the same as pressure) at start-up. It might be good for your ears, but not so much for your engine. I run 0-30 in OAT that range from 30-95df. 0-30 flows better than 0-40 when cold…and both flow better than 5W-30/40. Those of you who run 10W-XX in your Porsches likely do not understand why, just that it “sounds” better. Unless you’re in Dubai in summertime, I can think of no reason to run any oil above 0W-30 on a relatively low mileage water cooled Porsche street car. At operating temp, 10psi per 1000rpm will give the ideal flow, the lowest viscosity multigrade that will yield those results will be best to minimize cold start wear…

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by thstone

The more that I read and learn about oil, the less that I seem to know.

Same here, I read enough to learn basic guidelines & trust JFPinPA recommendation.
When Jake Raby endorsed Joe Gibbs DT40 & it became available I switched to it.

[Skrapmot]

Liking the redline 5/40 I use, but I only change about twice a year. More often I would probably use the cheaper Castrol.

[Chuck W.]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

Same here, I read enough to learn basic guidelines & trust JFPinPA recommendation.
When Jake Raby endorsed Joe Gibbs DT40 & it became available I switched to it.

I plan on using Joe Gibbs DT40 when Jake Raby releases the new formula. In September 2012 he stated, "We still have to burn through another 750 gallons of the current DT40 before running the next batch.The new flavor is already developed, but currently a 5 gallon pail of it cost almost 1600 bucks!.

IMHO, Mr. Raby has a passion for his business and has a good handle on what our engines need. Evidently, there was an issue with the first generation oil causing noise on start up.

[sgt brad]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

I would not bet on that. Along with dropping ZDDP levels, M1 products have shown a drop in film strength, particularly in the 0W-40 oil. And, in general, any given oil’s film strength decreases with miles, particularly under either high heat or shear conditions, which the car in question was obviously seeing. Higher cold weights (5W or 10W as opposed to 0W) oils from a given manufacturer also tend to demonstrate higher film strength as well. That is also why they suggested the Motul product in a higher weight, which is a Group V oil with both higher ZDDP (1200-1300 ppm) and superior film strength when compared to M1.

Do you still find cast roll edge with syntec acceptable?

[Flavor 987S]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

Same here, I read enough to learn basic guidelines & trust JFPinPA recommendation.
When Jake Raby endorsed Joe Gibbs DT40 & it became available I switched to it.

Originally Posted by Chuck W.

I plan on using Joe Gibbs DT40 when Jake Raby releases the new formula. In September 2012 he stated, "We still have to burn through another 750 gallons of the current DT40 before running the next batch.The new flavor is already developed, but currently a 5 gallon pail of it cost almost 1600 bucks!.

IMHO, Mr. Raby has a passion for his business and has a good handle on what our engines need. Evidently, there was an issue with the first generation oil causing noise on start up.

I switched to the 5W40 Joe Gibbs DT40 in the fall prior to winter hibernation. Can't wait to see my next Blackstone UOA. And I recently bought a second case (12 quart bottle case) when L&N had a black Friday sale. Saved about 30%.

[Flavor 987S]

Originally Posted by Skrapmot

Liking the redline 5/40 I use, but I only change about twice a year.

Excellent oil. I ran it for a few years in the Boxster.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by sgt brad

Do you still find cast roll edge with syntec acceptable?

Yes, it remains our baseline oil. We recently have begun testing three other candidates, but the data on them is currently limited.

[Perfectlap]

what is the ZDDP level in Castrol Edge (5-40) vs. what I presume is the factory fill M1 0-40?

[The Radium King]

mobil delvac. zddp levels on par with racing oil. equivalent viscosity ratings to mobil 1. cheap cheap cheap.

[Flavor 987S]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

what is the ZDDP level in Castrol Edge (5-40) vs. what I presume is the factory fill M1 0-40?

Here's Mobil's:

M1 0W40 is 1,000/1,100ppm

[JFP in PA]

Castrol Edge with Syntec Technology has been running 1100-1200ppm. Perhaps more interesting is that more and more oil producers have stopped releasing ZDDP levels in their spec sheets. Even the boutique products like Joe Gibbs Racing state they have “high ZDDP levels”, but do seem to publish any information on the actual numbers.

It is getting to be like some sort of well kept secret…………………