Salvage title

[surf40]

Am I missing something with "Salvage Title" cars? In California, where the car is for sale, it defines a salvaged vehicle as one that has been either totally destroyed or damaged beyond what the insurance company is willing to pay to fix it

The car is a 2010 boxster, with 47k miles, fo $27000. The add says

"This is a beautiful example of a 2010 Porsche Boxster. The car is in fantastic condition and looks near new. It does have a salvage title However this was due to the previous and only owner leaving the top down in the rain. The only repairs required where re upholstered seat bottoms and a new rear control unit."

So what am i missing? I would expect a car like this to go for about $40K. Why would an insurance company total a car for just upholstery and a control unit? I've never owned a Porsche, but does upholstered seats and a control unit cost $40K???

Is this a car that one should run away from very fast and never look back?

[linklaw]

I have purchased several Jeep Wranglers with Pennsylvania salvage titles. They were stolen, stripped and recovered. I bought them from friends who bought them from insurance companies and rebuilt them. I did alright when I sold them because I paid a lot less than retail for them and it seemed that people looking for wranglers didn't care about the salvage title. I have a 2007 Silverado that was wrecked and has a salvage title. My friend bought it and put a new frame under it. It runs and drives like new and I don't care about resale value since I plan on keeping it until it is virtually worthless anyway. That being said, I would never buy a flood car or water damaged car. My friend (an auto mechanic) bought an Audi A4 convertible that was in a freshwater flood, up to the bottom of the dashboard. He disassembled it, dried it out and replaced all of the water damaged control units, motors and some wiring. By the time he was done with it, he could have bought one without the salvage title for what he had into it. Water damaged components may work one day and not the next. It seems like the corrosion continues long after the car is dried out and electrical gremlins will haunt you forever. If you plan on buying that boxster and driving it a couple of years then moving on to something different, chances are you will lose your shirt on it, if you can sell it at all. You should also keep in mind that a salvage title voids all new car warranties. If it breaks during the warranty period, you are on your own. You asked about why an insurance company would total a car for just some upholstery and a control unit. Chances are the estimate to fix it included a lot more, like carpet, seats, switches, motors, and the control unit. Whoever bought it probably dried out the upholstery and electrical stuff and since it worked, never replaced it.

[WhipE350]

The owner may have left the top open for days and it soaked it real good. It is possible it was taken to a dealer who gave a pretty high estimate to replace everything that could go wrong. Insurance companies know that water salvage often end up going back in for on going problems and can be traced back to the original water issue...I donno maybe in that case the insurance company continues to pay, just guess though.

I don't know a lot about a 2010 but I was reading about the immobilizer system in a 986 in my Bentley manual they can't be just flipped out for a new one without a dealer doing a fair amount of work.

Maybe they felt safer in the end just getting out of the loop on the troubles a water damaged car can cause.

I'm certainly not an expert at this, maybe other could chime in. Would you be keeping the car for a long time so you don't have to worry about reselling ?

[thom4782]

This "offer" makes no sense to me. I would guess that the unit and seat repairs cost a couple of thousand ($3K at the most) to fix. I'd suggest you ask the seller for copy of the insurance evaluation and determination to see if the advertisement reflects what actually happened. BTW: you might check CarFax to see what it says.

[dghii]

Risk/Reward

I think its possible to buy a salvage title car and be very happy with it...its just not for everyone.

Biggest issue is value comparison. You cannot compare a salvage title that appears to be put back together correctly car against a non-salvage car. You may end up with a great car and be very happy as long as you don't try to kid yourself you bought a $40K car $27K.

You didn't.

If you go to sell the car a few years from now, you will sell as a salvage titile, which will include an explanation to the next buyer of how you bought the car and what you know about it. The future buyer convince themselves that the car is worth buying...but certainly not at the current market price.

No biggie. If you like the car and and are willing to take the risk, have at it!

I bought a low mileage rebuilt (FL) title Honda CRX si that was a couple of years old...ended up as a pretty nice car with no bad horror stories. I did run into a couple of history related items...a rattle in the passenger door that ended up being broken glass, and an ECU that gave up the ghost. The car threw the Check Engine ligh but still ran and drove, with just a miss at idle. I took the car to the dealer where they diagnosed as needing to be rewired as they could not run the diagnostics due to bad wiring (ie. "Did you know this car has been wrecked?").

I bought the manual and discovered that the diagnostic lights indicated a bad ECU. I pulled the ECU out and there was rust on the circuit board. I was able to replace the board with one from a yard and the car was happy again. BTW, I was amazed that even with the rusty ECU...Not bad for 4 years of service.

I sold the car and advertised as having a rebuilt title. The buyer ended up as someone with experience with rebuilt title cars and was content with the passage of time (my ownership) and my service records.

I still look but have not pulled the trigger on another since.

[husker boxster]

Was this car in the NY / NJ area around late Oct with it's top down?

Seriously, when you start calculating the price of new parts and the labor, you can quickly end up with a totaled vehicle. Let's look at some numbers:

In my neighborhood, a 2010 Boxster w/ 47K mi and no options books out for $37K on NADA, which is considered the highest of the online value calculators. Some options like PDK and nav can add a couple thousand each but neither are listed, so I'm going bare bones.

A car will be totaled when the cost to repair approaches 75% of its retail value. That's $27K in this case. When estimating the repairs, the ins co will price out new parts -which aren't cheap on a Porsche. Since you're new to Porsche, parts for Porsches are roughly 4x the price of "normal" parts. When you consider a new leather interior, all the wiring, and all the electronics, chances are you'll come close to $20K. Add in 2 wks worth of labor and you'll have another $8-$10K, depending on where you live. You're now over that $27K total line.

You can't assume this car only needs a few items to get it back on the road. If it did, why wouldn't the current owners finish it off? It would be worth more to them if they did. And based on the numbers from above, $10K below retail is no bargain, esp when you're buying a cat in the sack. This is not a good deal.

35 yrs ago my dad and I fixed up and sold rebuilders. It was a hobby for us, so we took our time and didn't count our labor as a cost. Businesses that rebuild cars do count their labor and they have to hurry to keep costs down. So they may cut corners to save money. I've seen a lot of shodily repaired cars that are passed off as "repaired". For every 1 quality repair, there are probably 5 that aren't. Be sure you find that 1 of the 6 and you'll be OK. Stay away from the other 5.

Keep looking, you can find a better deal. You were wise to do some research first.

[Bryan topping]

Two words, run away. There are far too many Boxsters to choose from to pick one that's going ( for sure) to be a headache.

[thstone]

I have purchased several vehicles in California with salvage titles;

Rule #1: Never, ever, ever believe what the seller says about a salvage vehicle unless they can prove every word of it.

Rule #2: Insurance companies are never stupid when it comes to claims. If the car was totaled by the insurance company, there was a pretty good reason for it.

Rule #3: Re-read rule #1.

With being said, salvage vehicles can be very good deals but you have to approach the car as a mystery with no witnesses. Your job is to determine the state of the car (what was the extent of the damage and was all of the damage repaired) and what your risk is going forward (was it repaired correctly). This must be done completely unemotionally because if you fall for the car you'll lose all of your objectivity and take on way too much risk. The key is to have the most extensive PPI imaginable performed by a real expert. You've got to know exactly what you're getting into before you buy it.

If you can do this and are willing to risk several thousand dollars if you get it wrong, then you might get a great deal. If you can't do this or can't live with the financial risk, then run away.

[j.fro]

If you're building a track car, your salvage find would be a great start!

[dallison]

About 20 years ago i purchased a ford escort that was an r title but it was theft recovery. I had to do a few things to make DOT happy and i never had any issues with it minus it being an 80's ford.

I would never, and i repeat, never buy a car with water damage.
My wife was looking at a car in college and the thing looked decent and was a decent price. The day she went to pick it up the lady said"by the way it's an r-title".

We were like wtf? but we had to buy a car that day and that was almost the only option since it was late in the day. It turned out the thing was really beat up over the years but we were able to sell it a couple years later.

[jacabean]

my local dealer had a 09 with airbag deployment , they could not give the car away .

[AndyA6]

Bought in 2007 a Mazda 3 base model for the kids, was a salvage title because it was one of the hundreds of Mazdas which were flodded in NJ.

We got lucky because no electrical problems, no issues, only 70 mls, for $ 12,500 out the door in Utah.

We figured once the kids are done with the car the car is done.

Fast forward to June 2012, car was totalled by one of the kids (not her fault, somebody ran her off the road), insurance gave us $ 12,485.......

So, flood/water damage can be very risky. Would usually not buy. In your specific case I would have a PPI done and check the electrics/electronics, especially all the wires and connections. Water can get into very unpleasant places and creep everywhere. Maybe today everyting works but longer term they may be really bad effects.

Later,
Andy

[Chief]

Just curious...

Are salvage title cars that are daily drivers insured the same?

[Overdrive]

My insurance company doesn't seem to care too terribly much that my car is a salvage title if I go by what they're charging me. The salvage status was due to a collision over 10 years ago, and the car went to auction as a repairable collision, which apparently puts things in salvage status. The car was repaired and driven for 4 years after that, sat for 5 more, and then it became mine. I haven't had any handling issues that I can really note. I autocrossed it a half dozen times last year with no issues. I think it really depends on why the car was given its salvage status. If it's for something like flood/rain damage, that's risky, and I wouldn't touch it.

EDIT: I should also mention that my insurance company happened to be the same one that totaled and auctioned the car when it got damaged years ago, so that was pretty reassuring. Still, what it really comes down to is whether the place that bought it did the repairs right.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Chief

Just curious...

Are salvage title cars that are daily drivers insured the same?

I think that this depends on the insurance company - there is no standard. Buyers would be well served to check with their insurance company before buying a car with a salvage title.

[jsceash]

Thstone,
I'm looking at one like this as well. The water destroyed the ABS unit and immobilizer, as well as carpet and seats were damage. Owner says it was smoking under seat when he tried to turn it over, and pulled the battery cables. The insurance CO did not want to possibly replace the wiring harness immobilizer and ABS systems. I'm thinking of buying it to make my Non S a S. Solves my tack power problem just gives me a big winter project.
3.2 engine
Front brake upgrade
Front center radiator
front bumper cover and radiator duct.
Possibly a good "S" ECU the entire wiring Harness for engine
If I pull the rear suspension I could install the rear axle hubs for the S rear brakes to mount

Update you Saturday

[shadrach74]

Originally Posted by thstone

I have purchased several vehicles in California with salvage titles;

Rule #1: Never, ever, ever believe what the seller says about a salvage vehicle unless they can prove every word of it.

Rule #2: Insurance companies are never stupid when it comes to claims. If the car was totaled by the insurance company, there was a pretty good reason for it.

Rule #3: Re-read rule #1.

I agree with the spirit of what you've said, but disagree with rule #2.

I have personally seen insurance companies make really bad decisions if the transaction is analyzed in detail. The trouble is that there are several aspects affecting an insurance companies decision to total a car. The actual damage to the car is one part, unknown damage is another (no adjuster wants to be 12K into a repair only to find out that there is deeper damage hiding that will exceed the cars value). Then there is the liability of future crash worthiness. All of this is mitigated with policies designed to mitigate risk, not determine the actual damage to the car.

Soooo...

When buying salvage titled vehicles my rules are:

1) Analyze vehicle on condition

2) Set you offer price based on history.

3) if not equipped to determine #1, than follow the insurance companies lead...pass.

[jsceash]

I would also add #4 pull the Carfax, buyers can lie about the damages. Insurance companies reporting back on the site rarely do.
#5 look at the car in the day light and also under night lot lighting. paint color flaws don't always show up in day light but almost always show up under lot lighting.

[doublesw]

I work for a major insurance co. in NC as an adjuster. There are many things that I consider when evaluating a wrecked car and if it is repairable or not. First is the cost of repairs in relation to value of the car. Each state has its on rules on this, but 75% damage to value makes it a total by law in most states. I also look at the chances that there is hidden damage that can't be seen until the car is torn down. IF it is close and I think there could be hidden damage, I total it. If it is a third party claim(one of our customers hits another car) then I would tend to total it quicker. I would have rental costs and diminished value claims to consider. Human nature also figures in to it. If a car is borderline and I can push it either way, I will try and go with what he owner wants to do. That is, if he has not been a jerk to deal with. The op wanted to know about a water salvage car. RUN from this car. I would not touch a water damage car with a ten foot pole, unless I was buying it for parts. Most of the time the real damage on 90% of these cars will not show itself until 6 months or a year down the road.
As far as the value goes, when I am settling a total loss claim on a car with a salvage title, the absolute most I would pay is trade in value. Most of the time you would be looking at 60 to 65% retail. As long as you know what you are getting and get it at a bargain price, nothing wrong with a salvage car caused by an accident. BUT, if it is salvage because of water, DO NOT BUY IT.

[WhipE350]

Originally Posted by doublesw

I work for a major insurance co. in NC as an adjuster. There are many things that I consider when evaluating a wrecked car and if it is repairable or not. First is the cost of repairs in relation to value of the car. Each state has its on rules on this, but 75% damage to value makes it a total by law in most states. I also look at the chances that there is hidden damage that can't be seen until the car is torn down. IF it is close and I think there could be hidden damage, I total it. If it is a third party claim(one of our customers hits another car) then I would tend to total it quicker. I would have rental costs and diminished value claims to consider. Human nature also figures in to it. If a car is borderline and I can push it either way, I will try and go with what he owner wants to do. That is, if he has not been a jerk to deal with. The op wanted to know about a water salvage car. RUN from this car. I would not touch a water damage car with a ten foot pole, unless I was buying it for parts. Most of the time the real damage on 90% of these cars will not show itself until 6 months or a year down the road.
As far as the value goes, when I am settling a total loss claim on a car with a salvage title, the absolute most I would pay is trade in value. Most of the time you would be looking at 60 to 65% retail. As long as you know what you are getting and get it at a bargain price, nothing wrong with a salvage car caused by an accident. BUT, if it is salvage because of water, DO NOT BUY IT.

Good to have you on the Forum! Welcome and thank you for the information. Sounds like the odds from an Insurance companies point of view is when in doubt total a water damaged car, odds in the end will pay off. Sounds like the buyer of one of these cars rolls the dice and should do and extensive PPI and hope they get a good one if they decide to buy.