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Old 10-17-2005, 07:05 AM   #21
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Sell your Boxster???? Blasphemy I say!!!

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Old 10-17-2005, 07:27 AM   #22
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Hi,

In many ways this thread has turned into a merely academic argument. You buy the car which is front of you.

If the Car is what mostly you want (buying used almost always entails some compromise - options, color, condition, etc.), the price is reasonable for the Car presented, it passes a PPI with few faults (remember this is always a What's Wrong with this Car Inspection - no Car comes away with an absolutely Clean Slate), Service Records (OPC or DIY) and it Tickles Your Fancy, you make an offer and hope it is accepted or a compromise is reached and you purchase the Car.

Changing Wear & Tear items such as Belts, Hoses Fluids and such is a given. But, realize that repair, whether it be OPC or DIY is, for the most part, Reactive, that is, you repair the Broken or Worn Part. Sometimes R&R is made because you're already in there... so you may as well do it, but most often as I say, it's Reactive.

Buying a Used Car, whether DIY or OPC maintained and Serviced is still an unknown to some degree. A Part may fail a week after buying the Car in either instance, and not be the fault of prior Service and maintenance in either case. You can cut down the Odds of a Bad Experience with a thorough Inspection, but you cannot ever eliminate them. The PPI Inspection is much more important then where, or whom, did the Service and Maintenance. A thorough one gives a good Snapshot of the Car as it is Today.

As stated by several others, OPC Maintenance can often overlook things, or simply not take the time and care a skilled DIY would because they have other priorities.

But, again, it's the Car which is in front of you at the time you're looking which matters far more than your percieved value of either OPC or DIY Maintenance and Service. A Good Car should never be discounted, or passed over simply on the basis of whom or where the Service and Maintenance was performed...

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99

PS @ BruceLee - your comment about me was a little Snide and Uncalled For, what's your problem..? - Chill Out!!

Last edited by MNBoxster; 10-17-2005 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 10-17-2005, 09:26 AM   #23
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Buying a used car is the pre-eminent example of caveat emptor. Buying a bad used car can be anything from mildly irritating to disasterous, with a bad Porsche tending towards the disasterous end of the scale, depending on one's own financial situation.
The reliability of the maintenance records can, and should be, one factor to be taken into consideration when making a buying decision. Not the only factor to be sure, but taking a seller's word for the efficacy of his undocumented maintenance practices when he has a heavy personal interest in the outcome of the discussion, has "gullible sap" written all over it. Maybe you'll get lucky and buy a car from Toolpants or MNboxster. But maybe you won't.
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Old 10-17-2005, 10:42 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Ronzi
Buying a used car is the pre-eminent example of caveat emptor. Buying a bad used car can be anything from mildly irritating to disasterous, with a bad Porsche tending towards the disasterous end of the scale, depending on one's own financial situation.
The reliability of the maintenance records can, and should be, one factor to be taken into consideration when making a buying decision. Not the only factor to be sure, but taking a seller's word for the efficacy of his undocumented maintenance practices when he has a heavy personal interest in the outcome of the discussion, has "gullible sap" written all over it. Maybe you'll get lucky and buy a car from Toolpants or MNboxster. But maybe you won't.
Hi,

You are of course correct with your Caveat Emptor approach, but there's a reasonable limit. Do you restrict yourself to strictly one-owners? Or Cars under 30k mi.? Or Cars which are purely Stock with no Mods or Hacks? Or cars which have had no major repairs?

With each requirement you impose, you limit the field of available Cars and probably pass up several good ones in the Bargain. That would be OK if your search led you to the Perfect Trouble-Free Car, but there's absolutely no Guarantee of this happening.

Agreed, due dilligence is required, but don't lose sight of the fact that eventually you must make a judgement on the examples which present themselves to you. This judgement is much more likely to be correct if you base it primarily on what you see and what the PPI tells you. And, realize that the only way a Car gets a PPI to begin with is that you've looked it over and it appears good enough to warrant the expense of a PPI and further investigation. Whatever got the Car to this point, whether it be OPC or DIY Maintenance and Service becomes somewhat moot.

If you're comforted by restricting your search to only OPC Serviced and Maintained Cars, well that's up to you and certainly your right. But, you're likely to pass on some very good examples if you do.

Where I might employ the percieved difference between an OPC and DIY Maintained Car is during negotiation. But, by this point, I've already pretty much decided that this is a Car worth having. So again, I'm not sure how much weight I'd bring to bear, rather I'd bring it up to see if I could benefit from it...

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99
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Old 10-17-2005, 11:38 AM   #25
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I would buy Randall's car but then, we know how he is with his cars!

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Old 10-17-2005, 03:07 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Ronzi
You are examining for purchase two 10 yr old Boxsters. Both have approximately the same mileage, both appear to be in the same excellent condition, and drive well. A pre-purchase inspection reveals no apparent problems with either car. The asking price for each is approximately the same.
One of them has complete documentation for all maintenance either from an authorized Porsche dealer or from a Porsche specialist after the expiration of the factory warranty. The other car has a manila folder with a bunch of sales receipts for oil and spark plugs from Auto Zone.
Which one do you buy?
Here's how I look at it...The seller who had Porsche maintain the car and is selling the car for the same price as the guy who DIY will LOSE BIG MONEY in your scenario. In theory, the guy who allowed Porsche to do the maintenance should get thousands MORE than the guy who DIY.

As far as someone buying the car they MAY favor the Porsche maintained car initially BUT...with good receipts and when talking to the seller if he seems truly into the car, I would buy from the DIYer hands down.
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Old 10-17-2005, 03:28 PM   #27
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Her is a perfect example even though its not a Porsche..

I was working on getting my other car (VW golf) ready for the winter and decided to change the front brakes, not scheduled, but I thought it was a wise thing to do as they were not changed for ages..

Pop everything open and notice one of the splash panels has a crack around the mounting point and is close to falling of from one corner.. So I fix it by re-inforcing the mounting point.. Would the dealer of done this? probably not, and the panel would have fallen off and exposed my timing belt and cam gears to salt and slush..

All it took was my time to fix, but since I love all my cars I am more then happy to put in the time, but I doubt the dealer is willing to invest this time without charging, and I doubt the panel would have been brought to my attention as it was not technically broken..

so maybe sometimes it is not always best to buy dealer maintained, but that depends entirely on who was maintaning the car..

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Old 10-17-2005, 03:59 PM   #28
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If I were doing my own service, you can bet the car from a dealer maintained owner is a better deal.

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Old 10-17-2005, 04:54 PM   #29
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What are you guys even talking about. You are on this board because you are a big time boxster fan and would like to gain more knowledge of your vehicle. I think resell value is useless on this board. I know I am never selling my Boxster.
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Old 10-17-2005, 05:07 PM   #30
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I know I am never selling my Boxster.
I will never, ever, ever, ever sell mine either. Actually ALL of us should never ever sell our cars and ALL of us should DIY maintenance. That will teach the dirty dealerships a lesson or two on overcharging!
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Old 10-17-2005, 06:09 PM   #31
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"I know I am never selling my Boxster."

Wanna bet?

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Old 10-17-2005, 11:15 PM   #32
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Im pretty sure I will not sell my boxster because it was the first car i bought and paid for on my own. To be honest the car has been the most source of fun since all my friends went off to college, it has also helped bring my dad and I together more then we used to be(he is a big time Porsche fan).
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Old 10-18-2005, 02:00 PM   #33
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In the final analysis, whether one is an astute buyer or a gullible sap depends entirely on the outcome of the transaction.
I bought my '99 out of an auto trader magazine 500 miles from home after 15 minutes of walk-around inspection and a 10-minute joy ride. The "maintenance documentation" I put so much faith in consisted of one (1) oil change receipt, albeit from a Porsche dealer.
Fortunately for me it turned out to be fault-free in spite of it's ownership history as a lease car from humid and slushy Chicago, and cosmetically immaculate into the bargain. Apparently the lessee didn't drive the car in the winter, and took good care of the car as revealed by the warranty history I subsequently obtained from the my local Porsche dealer.
All that aside, the next owner will receive as full and complete a maintenance history as I can provide, so they will not have to wonder whether the car they bought is a good example of the marque, or a bucket of crap with leather seats.
I also agree with Brucelee, the liklihood of any of us keeping our Boxster "forever" is just about nil.
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Old 10-18-2005, 02:23 PM   #34
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This Porsche will be a very famous one when one looks back twenty years from now. This design is a dozen years old yet still looks current. That rarely happens.
The Ferrari 355 of the mid 90's is another example but that car was in a whole different price league.
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Old 10-18-2005, 03:24 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Ronzi
In the final analysis, whether one is an astute buyer or a gullible sap depends entirely on the outcome of the transaction.
I bought my '99 out of an auto trader magazine 500 miles from home after 15 minutes of walk-around inspection and a 10-minute joy ride. The "maintenance documentation" I put so much faith in consisted of one (1) oil change receipt, albeit from a Porsche dealer.
Fortunately for me it turned out to be fault-free in spite of it's ownership history as a lease car from humid and slushy Chicago, and cosmetically immaculate into the bargain. Apparently the lessee didn't drive the car in the winter, and took good care of the car as revealed by the warranty history I subsequently obtained from the my local Porsche dealer.
All that aside, the next owner will receive as full and complete a maintenance history as I can provide, so they will not have to wonder whether the car they bought is a good example of the marque, or a bucket of crap with leather seats.
I also agree with Brucelee, the liklihood of any of us keeping our Boxster "forever" is just about nil.
Now I am thoroughly confused...your first post basically rips the guy up for doing his own maintenance because nobody would ever purchase a DIY maintained car and now you admit yourself that you had purchased a car without any idea of what you were doing?
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Old 10-18-2005, 03:26 PM   #36
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In my eyes the 986 has a classic timeless look and 20 years from now, if I am still alive and still going to car shows, I will see if this has changed. Do not like the looks of the 987. Never liked the 911/996/997.

After 6 plus years of ownership I have been looking for something new. Mid-engine. 2 seats. And a roof that you can remove.

Now, if that Elise just did not look so goofy....
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Old 10-18-2005, 05:38 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectlap
This Porsche will be a very famous one when one looks back twenty years from now. This design is a dozen years old yet still looks current. That rarely happens.
This is soooo true of many Porsches. My wife is amazed at how many people have followed me into a parking lot or stared as I pass by in the 928. Several have asked "Is that a new model?" then their jaw hits the floor when you tell them it's 20 years old.

The Boxster will be the same way 20 years from now, that's one of the things that makes it such a sweet automobile.
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Old 10-18-2005, 06:44 PM   #38
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Funny thing about that 928. I used to think it was stone ugly.

Now, I stare at them and think, "hey, I have to buy one of those!"

Same thing on the 968.

Go figure?

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Old 10-18-2005, 09:18 PM   #39
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Same here about the 928,I have considered a GTS or S4. They have started to grow on me.
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Old 10-19-2005, 09:05 AM   #40
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xclusivecar wrote:
"Now I am thoroughly confused...your first post basically rips the guy up for doing his own maintenance because nobody would ever purchase a DIY maintained car and now you admit yourself that you had purchased a car without any idea of what you were doing?"

I wondered if somebody was going to nail me for that.
Was it Karl Marx that said "Consistency is the hobgoblin of the small mind"?

My position is that full maintenance records are an important factor to be considered in the purchase of a used Porsche. Not the only one, but an important one.
In the case of my car, it had a little over 26k miles on it when I bought it, not yet up to the major maintenance interval of 30k, so it had as yet not potentially missed a major maint. At most it would have missed an oil change or two.
Not the best thing in the world, but not fatal, either.
Since the rest of the car was in extraordinary condition, I chose to ignore the lack of maint. records, and buy the car anyway.
Another point to consider is that as a car becomes older and racks up the miles, regular maint. becomes, in my mind, more important. That's the reason for my little example stating that the two cars were 10 yrs old.

My initial post was more intended to point out that changing the oil, filters, and plugs at 30K does not consitute the "major maintenance" specified to be carried out at that interval, and for which a dealer charges approx. $1,000.
To be sure, the rest of the maintenance consists almost exclusively of checks and inspections. How thoroughly those checks and inspections are carried out at any particular dealer is open to question, as subsequent posts by others have pointed out. However, by stamping the maintenance book and/or invoicing a customer for a 30k maintenance, the dealer is certifying that the work has been carried out. Does that mean anything? I think it does, but others disagree. At least it means more than a seller saying "Sure, I did the 30k maintenance" when questioned about it by a prospective purchaser of his car.


Last edited by Ronzi; 10-19-2005 at 09:16 AM.
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