986 or 987?? help please.
 

Ive got 2003 boxster s (meridian metalic) with 20.000km and:
-18"carrera wheels
-automatic aircondition
-sport seats with porsche logo
-sound packet plus
-colored wheels caps
-leather seats
-manual gear box
-gt3 front bumper
-windshot
-tinted windows
-xenon

AND I CAN CHANGE IT FOR : (but i need to pay 10.000$)

987 s 2005 with 7.000km (atlas grey) and:
-sport chrono
-tiptronic s
-leather seats
-automatic aircondition
-bixenon
-sound packet plus
-windshot
-18" standard boxster s wheels
and thats probably all...

What do you think about it?
Please help.

Best regards.

Pros:

You'll get a car that is the first year of the model run, instead of the last and presumably most "solid" of the previous run. I don't think this is too much of an issue in that despite 80% of the 987 being new, the engines have basically been carried forward from the 986 although tweaked.

Basically double your warranty.

The 987 looks better, and is generally the superior car :)

Cons:

You'll be going from a manual (I assume) to a tiptronic 987 S, which will actually be slower than a 987 base and slower than your 2003 S. But then again, I'm not familiar with rush-hour traffic in Warsaw.

Doesn't seem to make much financial sense.

Keep that 986S a couple of years man and buy the 987S when they have worked out the new car gremlins. Or buy that 05 987S in 2007 at a lower cost and use the saving to git yourself some nice TECH ART mods.

Hi, I've got an '04 S and love it. I'm sure the '05 is better at everthing but, I have to say it's not worth going for an '05 987 (S) at this point. Unless of course you're having issues with the '03.


bob

I have to agree that it doesn't sound like a good idea financially. Better to wait a couple years!

Thanks. I will wait.
And next year i wanna buy 997 :D

Best regards

what about a Cayman S?


bob
'04 986S

i think that cayman s is a super car... but 997 is better :) but cost more... but i will wait and in 2006 i wanna buy one.

I'll take a CaymanS over a 997 any day of the week.
Can't beat mid engine dynamics! wait til RUF get's a hold of it.
btw, I think the 997 looks like a VW beetle had a baby with an RX8.
The 996 Carrera will become a classic.

I say keep the 03 S too, but I'm alittle biased. :) Do some slight suspension and engine modifications and the 987 will have nothing on your car.

987...987...987...987....987....987....987....987. ...987....987....987

I think it is premature to talk about the Cayman S until we actually have some ON THE ROAD.

The 997 is a sweet ride, drove one recently.

:cheers:

Why is the 987 the superior car? Don't forget to include the money to paint the side intakes, cause they look like $hit. And so do the cheap plastic silver interior parts. But I guess all that goes with the japanese transmission.

Methinks I hear sour grapes, LexusPilot. Just about every auto writer on the face of the earth agrees that the 987 is better. And the Japanese transmission, by the way, is great (Does your name mean that you're also a Lexus owner. Has it got a German transmission?). That doesn't mean the (Finnish-built) 986 is a bad car by any stretch of the imagination. There'll always be something better coming along and the 987 owners will someday find that a new version is passing us by. Some may say that day is almost here with the Cayman. Few of us would be surprised if the Cayman engine ends up in the '07 987S. When that happens, I'm not gonna cry over 15 more horsepower. Hell, I turned down 120 more by not choosing the Corvette.

Over 10 years, I enjoyed every day of my 968 even as other cars began to surpass it in 0-60 and other measures. I say enjoy what you have instead of criticizing what you don't.

I don't have sour grapes. I was just replying to the blanket statement above that the 987 is the superior car. I can buy one right now, but I didn't feel compelled to because it didn't feel that superior. I think superior was just the wrong word. Different? Updated? Those would be more apt. I am not stabbing at 987 owners either. I love 987's but that post above had a tone like the 986 was $hit.

Over 10 years, I enjoyed every day of my 968 even as other cars began to surpass it in 0-60 and other measures. I say enjoy what you have instead of criticizing what you don't.


Thats what I say too. Why didn't you reply like that to the post above? I don't have 987 envy as you imply. If I did, I would just buy it. I just can't can't get over the silver plastic. I did ask if the sport wheel gets rid of the silver plastic but never found out. I got a new 986 because I like the all black interior, I mean all black. If that was available in a 987 I would have one I guess.

This is the post I replied about:
The 987 looks better, and is generally the superior car from sd987.

Superior is just not the right word.

What do you mean finnish built? Weren't only some built in Fin?

Superior is a loaded word in comparing the 987 to the 986.
On performance I can accept that readily. A great argument for best
handling Porsche ever built?
But on design/looks/aestetics/etc. I would have to say its different but
ceratinly not better. That design isn't going to be on any top 10 lists in Excellence.

The 986 design went essentially unchanged for 8 YEARS and was still a great seller.
Will the 987 look last 8 years? We'll see...

I would be very excited to see a 987S version 2.0:

No silver plastic
Color matched side intakes
New inside door panels - I admit I don't know how to change them but just something different.
Better looking wheels. I like the 5 spokes on the silver cayman photos, the one with the spokes that are wider at the rim than the hub. Sorry don't know the name.

AND not to have hijacked the thread....Enjoy the 986S mmmmm, ignore the urge to splurge. The 987 will be there if you change your mind later, they keep making more.

If I had a 986S on the other side of the pond, I'd cruise Budapest.

If you have U in your VIN, the car was built in Finland. S means Stuttgart. From what I've read, most Boxsters are built in Finland today. There have been stories that the quality control is better in Finland.

One reason why the 986 was a big seller is that it put a lot of people (many non-Porsche owners) into a Porsche convertible for an amount lower than they had seen in years. As I recall, the first 986s had a starting MSRP of $39,900, or something like that. The last 968 cabs were $51,900, excluding options, and at this price, there were few takers for a 4-cylinder. For the lower price, you got a six, but with 40 less horsepower, and they cheapened the interior even more (especially the seats). If I remember right, the lower horsepower and less aggressive looks are what led some people to label the Boxster a "chick car."

The 987 interior, at least in quality of materials, is a vast improvement over the miscellaneous black plastic bits in the 986. And for all the criticism of the 987's silver pieces, an awful lot of 986 owners have changed their interior trim to silver to give the car a richer look.

convertibles will always be coined chick cars. Its unavoidable in a sub $100,000 car. And convertibles have by far been the best selling Porsches. The Boxster continued this at a time Porsche REALLY needed it.

I don't agree that the syling is less agressive.
from the windshield forward its a Carrera. Was the 996 considered less masculine than the 993? Losing the round headlights gave it a much bolder look.
And the rear fenders of the 986 are one of its strongest points.

interesting quote from Excellence review up the RUF 987 R Sypder:

"At roughly 135 pounds lighter than a CarreraS, the R Spyder is faster against the stop watch. Being mid-engined makes it more agile too. One drive in this car will give you the answer you already know as to why Porsche doesn't offer more powerful engine in its 987 line up."

Quote:
If you have U in your VIN, the car was built in Finland. S means Stuttgart. From what I've read, most Boxsters are built in Finland today. There have been stories that the quality control is better in Finland.
Yes I know this, you were the one mistakingly referring to all of them as built in Finland. I have a Stuttgart car. What is so ************************ wrong or cheap about the interior. I haven't been in a sub 50,000 dollar car with a better interior and just drove a GT3 with the exact same interior. Some of us don't want our sports cars looking like a Maxima or Subaru. I consider the 986 interior to be flat out Porsche.

Ok, lets all be cool. No need to resort to profanity.

Lets face it, much of what we feel is totally subjective. Lets keep a light spirit about this subject!

:dance:

BruceLee, the original post asked for opinions:)

I could/should have left out the swears...I blame the swears on the price of fuel.

Thanks, Brucelee. My feelings exactly. The beauty of these forums is that we can read other people's opinions and then decide whether we agree with them or not. Lexuspilot, you don't like the Japanese transmission and I'm not crazy about the 986 interior. Sounds like a draw to me. More important, we both love our Porsches, so there's something positive we have in common. :cheers:

Now let's go on to the next topic.

If I had been of sound mind today I would have said I prefer this to that. I don't dislike anything Porsche.
No worries.

987 is nice but auto yukes
 

986 can't imagine driving a Porsche with an automatic. It would be heresy!

The Tip is actually a pretty nice trans. Out here in SOCAL, the freeway is pretty deadly on the six speeders! Stop and go but mostly stop.

:cheers:

Good stuff. We do have great posters here.

That is what makes this so much fun.

Thanks! :cheers:

heresy?,
Well I once went for a ride in a highly modified white 944 with a slushbox.
It was a real beauty and very much a Porsche.
Here a beeeeeautiful 928 with only 16K miles
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/87-928-S4-Only-16k-Miles-Pristine-Condition_W0QQitemZ4575341518QQcategoryZ6432QQrdZ1 QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

http://i8.ebayimg.com/04/i/04/d9/6e/0e_3.JPG
http://i17.ebayimg.com/04/i/04/d2/97/fc_3.JPG

Yummy.......


:)

Ok,

I have been following this thread with interest and now feel compelled to stir the waters a little bit more. Here goes...

I totally disagree that a convertible designates the car, any car, as a Chick Car. I certainly wouldn't call the Cobra, the 550 Spyder, a Big Healey or an E-Type Jag Chick Cars. And, I think anyone who would simply doesn't know what they're talking about.

I also disagree that there's anything wrong with Japanese Transmissions. The Japanese have pretty much ALWAYS made good trannys. I have been an avid Datsun Z Car collector for more than 30 years (I still own my original, one-owner '71 240Z - Pristine w/ 20k mi. on the clock). I have owned 8 of them through the years and never once had a tranny issue with any of them despite the fact the two were dedicated Track/Auto-X cars. Further, you almost never hear of transmission troubles from Toyotas, Hondas, Subarus. Finally, JATCO (Japan Automatic Transmission Co.) supplies the tranny in my wife's Jaguar X-Type Sport and it's great, totally trouble-free. 'Nuff said.

I spoke with Porsche NA's National Service VP a while back and he told me that they have many fewer warranty issues with the cars built in Uusikaupunki, Finland by Valmet. This stands to reason. Finland has a 99% High School Graduation rate and a 100% Literacy Rate, while most of the Line Workers in Stuttgart are imported mostly from North Africa (Egypt, Morrocco) , because German Labor rates are too high, and their countries are nowhere near these numbers. Also, there's no shame in driving a Porsche built outside of Stuttgart or Leipzig, this is as much a Porsche tradition as using the outside mounted Cold Start Ignition. Through the years, Porsche has contracted for production in Finland, France, Italy, Czechoslovakia and Poland for both sub-assemblies and total assembly. In fact, not a single 914 was ever produced in Germany, the Czechs made them all.

The TiptronicS tranny is great! I have one in my '99 986. I regularly win Auto-X with it. I have gotten as high as 30MPG on the highway, but do admit it carries a penalty driving in-town. It has more torque than a manual by the simple fact that a torque converter actually multiplies the Engine's torque (an inhherent quality of all automatics). Plus, Porsche added about 8 ponies to the TipS models to make-up for parasitic loss. Add to that there are fewer RMS Failures with the TipS and one of the two local dealers here in Mpls. has NEVER had a TipS Boxster in for repair, the only practice they get are fluid/filter changes. It has perfect balance, and in my case, if I feel the need to Row, I can simply jump into my Lotus, 240Z or take my Formula Vee to the Track, so a Manual Boxster just isn't all that high on my list.

So far as the 986 vs 987 debate, this is simply a matter of taste. I don't think either one is better, but I admit to simply liking the 986 more. I too could buy a 987 tomorrow if I chose to.

Power should never be part of any proper discussion regarding Sports Cars. Sports Cars are not about Excess, they're about Balance and Handling. Those people hell-bent to Bald the Tires in a Block are confusing Sports Cars with Muscle Cars. The truth is, most would actually be happier in a Viper or Vette, but want to be known as Refined , Sophisticated, Enthusiasts instead of NasCar Wannabes. I see the same thing in the Lotus Esprit forums. My '85 Esprit will wax most Vettes out there in anything but the straightest road, yet I hear from all sorts who want to add this Go Fast Part or that. They don't understand that they're upsetting a very delicate balance designed into the car. Sobeit, that's what's Great about America, but at least let's call them for what they are.

Of course, all my ramblings are just my humble opinion. One which has been shaped by 30 years of owning, maintaining, repairing, rebuilding, driving and racing a total of 39 Sports cars from Datsuns, MGs, Healeys, Triumphs, Jags, Lotus, Porsches and Ferraris... and counting!

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

My turn....
 

Good post, I like controversy as much as the next person ! My not so humble opinions on the topics herein, and not in any particular order:

After 7000 miles in my 987 I have a sneaking suspicion that these Japanese transmissions are going to be a "trouble-spot". While I haven't had the transmission meltdown experienced and posted about by Eslai, I think the tranny has "issues".

If it's possible to characterize the ability of the workforce in one nation to assemble a car better than another based on demographics, I would have to agree with MNBoxster's observations and would prefer to have my car assembled by the Finns, although certainly not designed by them ;) I would also add, that in the contractor vs. employer relationship, there is more incentive for the "contractor" to do a good job and not f/up then the employer. I would assume that the Porsche contract is one of the most important and lucrative to Valmet, and certainly the most prestigious.

I don't think the Boxster is perceived so much as a chick car as much as it is considered to be a car for those who might be considered "flamboyant" (a chick/hairdresser type attribute?). Part of the joy of driving the Boxster is being seen in it and drawing attention, and if you can't concede this to be a source of pleasure, I'd say you're just kidding yourself and trying to buck human nature.

Simply put, in terms of bang for the buck, the 987 Base is a great "value", the S, not so much.

Given the choice, on the basis of performance, I'm not sure why someone would buy a tiptronic S which is slower "on paper" than the base. That being said, while I'm sure Walter Rorhl could do it with ease, I have my doubts as to whether your average manual base driver could consistently beat a tip S 0-60...not to mention that sometimes driving a manual is quite the hassle.

The superiority of the 987 to the 986 is no more debatable than Darwin's theory of evolution, and to argue the superiority of the 986 is equivalent to purporting that Homo Erectus was superior to Homo Sapiens. A more timely reference would be to state that people today are on average taller, stronger and faster than they were 100 years ago. But it certainly doesn't imply that the value of a human's life or the strength of the human spirit today is an any way greater than it was for those that came before us.

As far as looks go, I'm sure that Homo Erectus thought that other H-E were pretty attractive. Homo Erectus' powerful foreams (useful for fashioning stone knives), swarthy complexion and potruding brow might even appeal to modern Homo Sapiens who like the strong silent type. However, I know I wouldn't have bought a Boxster if Porsche hadn't made the changes that they did.

don't you lose torque in between shifts with a tip?
I recall that being one of the reasons why an expert
contributor to Excellence Magazine chose the 986S manual over the tip.
Something about "not getting the full effect of the engine".

Hi,

I don't feel that you do. The TipS cars effectively make more Torque than a Manual by nature of the fact that the Torque Converter actually multiplies the Engine's Torque. Plus, the TipS shifts much faster than a Manual so it really wouldn't matter. If you mean can the Engine fall out of the Power Band? Then yes, it can, but so does a Manual. I don't think I fully understand your question.

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99

Several brief comments:

1-Boxsters are considered chick cars by some folks. The vast majority of owners however, are male.

So, who cares what non-Boxster owners thnk? It is a very fine car and we know it!

2-I am driving a C5 corvette right now. The car is a very fine handling machine and I would not be concerned about taking on any twisty road.

In a straight line, it is a blur!

3-In SOCAL, a rag top is almost mandatory. I don't understand how a convertable cannot be considered a SC. Would any Ferrari rag not be considered a SC?

People have all these artitrary distinctions when in reality, they don't hold up to the facts.

In the end, it is all just opinion. Kinda of like the opinions on the TIP.

Hey, drive a tip, if you like it, buy it.

If not, don't!

It is, what it is!

:cheers:

I'll have to unearth the issue of Excellence, but I remember very clearly that it said that a tiptronic transmission shaves power in between shifts, resulting in a loss of torque( vs. Manual Trans). It could be that the TC does in fact multiply the torque but (according to Excellence) it's still less torque overall than what you would get manually shifting where there is no shaving of power.

Its the Excellence issue "rating the best Porsche convertibles" .

Hi,

I'm still unclear as to what you mean. If you mean that the TipS robs some HP, well I agree, with some exception. Any Automatic Transmission has some Parasitic Loss associated with it simply because it draws Crank power to run the TC pump and the Servos in the Tranny. That said, Porsche adds about 8HP to the TipS cars over the Manual ones to make up for this Parasitic Loss, so there should be no Net effect.

But, your initial post mentioned robbing Torque which isn't the same thing as Power which you now state. In either event, I think I've addressed the issue, as has Porsche.

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99

yes it robs torque vs. a manual, in addition to HP. Meaning there is a net loss with a tip.
I think that if Porsche had completely addressed the issue, then the Excellence contributor wouldn't have cited the tip power/torque reduction as a reason to opt for the manual S vs. the tip.

I have no experience driving a tip. BUt I have driven paddles and I can say that these are inventions of the Devil which have ruined motorsports. But Great if you're an older guy or have physical limitations.
Hopefully someday I'll find that Ferrari 360 coupe with NO paddles. :cheers:

Brucelee,

On your point numbered 3:
Where in the post did it say Boxsters aren't Sports cars?

Sorry, misread this as Sports cars vs Chick cars.

Hmmm, can a sports car BE a chick car?


:cheers: