Drove a 981 'S' tonight...

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by kls

I think in many ways I'm the type of guy Porsche is designing cars for. I'm in my 60's and I love cars as much as always, and can I afford a nicer car. I read all the reviews and lust over the best handling, most powerful model - even though I will probably never put it on a track. I know the 315 HP on the new Boxster S is completely wasted on me, but knowing it's there and being able to punch it occasionally may help to keep me young. The problem is that after a couple of hours driving in my 986 my back begins to ache a bit and the noise starts to get to me. Enter the 981 - quieter, plusher, luxury interior. Others understandably don't want that, but it works for me.

I apologize to everyone on the forum for being the demographic that drives these changes, but as a kid I had to walk 4 miles to school in 3' of snow....

Don't take this the wrong way, because I'm genuinely curious. If you have all of the issues with a stiff ride and loud exhaust, why are you even bothering with a Porsche? There are some really nice GTs out there with the same speed as the Boxster but coddle the driver better. You can get alot of car for the price of a new Boxster. The SLK, XK and Z4, even a used SL or DB9 come to mind. All much better at being fast GTs than the Boxster.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

Blue those 2100 pound cars, have no six airbags, no six speaker stereos, no catalytic converters, no five mile an hour bumpers they can't build one at 2100 anymore, there are too many regulations and crash test metrics to meet.

The Elise had (almost) all of those things and weighs less than 2100 pounds. The Alfa 4C, next Miata and sister Alfa will also come in closer to 2 tons than 2 1/2.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2014-mazda-mx-5-miata-future-cars

I've seen a few reviews comparing the 3rd gen Miata to the 1st and while they love both, they admit to the 1st gen being more fun to drive.

[Ghostrider 310]

NHTSA Crash-Test Ratings
NHTSA crash-test data is unavailable for the 2011 Lotus Elise.


Too bad would like to see how it does, big question is why are you not pursuing a Lotus? As far as the Miata, with all due respect I'd take a 986 any day of the week.

[kls]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

Don't take this the wrong way, because I'm genuinely curious. If you have all of the issues with a stiff ride and loud exhaust, why are you even bothering with a Porsche? There are some really nice GTs out there with the same speed as the Boxster but coddle the driver better. You can get alot of car for the price of a new Boxster. The SLK, XK and Z4, even a used SL or DB9 come to mind. All much better at being fast GTs than the Boxster.

That makes perfect sense, but inexplicably I get sucked into the reviews on the Porsches and none of the other cars give me the same rush. I think a big part of that is mental, but I really like the way the Boxster drives - at least for a few hours. Also, although I can afford a sports car, a new 981 is not on the horizon.

[MikenOH]

I have not driven a 981 back to back with a 986, but in my short time in the car, I thought the steering felt fine. Maybe after 7 years in a 987, my recollections of how great the steering response was in a 986 has dimmed, but i felt the steering in new the car allowed the driver to put the car where they wanted and still allow the driving experience to be fun.

Without a doubt, HP losses, MPG numbers and the like are driving just about everything these days on new cars. I'm sure the Germans still want to get that "one with the car" feeling if possible, but with the above issues and ever widening tires, the steering response priority will suffer.

The only way to get back to the "holy grail" is to buy a used 986 or another true sports car with unassisted steering--all depends on where the priorities are for the buyer. Porsche is betting on--and I agree with them--that the improvements in the new car will widen the appeal to those that want a more civilized car, with additional creature comforts--while still having the performance capabilities that traditional Porsche customers expect in a car.

Having said that, I could have done without the Panamera's console; it may work in a Panamera but looks out of place in both the 991 and 981.

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

losing feedback is a mortal sin for THIS type of car. Fine for bloated GT or GT-lite or GT styled convertible. Engineering should revolve on avoiding that as much as possible. In fact they should engineer new ways to have MORE feedback.
How? Who knows that's why they rake in millions. It's not very imaginative to simply turn a sports car into a cushy, insulated plush yuppy mover. People are quick to point out that it's lighter, more powerful but it's pretty obvious that these things are driven by arriving at the lowest lap time (N-ring specifically) and not maximizing the driver's role.
But those are two incongruent objectives. Faster N-ring times mean the car must do more and the driver less -- certainly with more and more power that can put the average inexperienced , deep-pocketed driver up a tree with one errant move. So feedback becomes a secondary goal and you get less and less with each new generation. They are slowly destroying the key element of the roadster experience. It's like playing a video game on the easiet level because that's the one where you drive fastest and your mistakes never slow you down.

[fusionist]

The 986 is beautiful.

The 987 is handsome.

The 981 is a hot mess!

[WhipE350]

Originally Posted by kls

I think in many ways I'm the type of guy Porsche is designing cars for. I'm in my 60's and I love cars as much as always, and can I afford a nicer car. I read all the reviews and lust over the best handling, most powerful model - even though I will probably never put it on a track. I know the 315 HP on the new Boxster S is completely wasted on me, but knowing it's there and being able to punch it occasionally may help to keep me young. The problem is that after a couple of hours driving in my 986 my back begins to ache a bit and the noise starts to get to me. Enter the 981 - quieter, plusher, luxury interior. Others understandably don't want that, but it works for me.

I apologize to everyone on the forum for being the demographic that drives these changes, but as a kid I had to walk 4 miles to school in 3' of snow....

I understand this too. I'm 52 and struggle on the longer trips. I have both a 986 and 987. I'm probably going to get better seats for the 986. As for noise, the 986 with the top up is louder and does get annoying but once I'm off the highway and on the twisties I don't care because the top is down. I love both cars, they both have many similarities and many differences. In the evenings when I get home after work I take one out into the country and drive for 30 mins, I alternate cars and never wish I was in the other. As for moving into a more GT style car...well I drive a 991 all the time and it is too big for me and not as much fun, I'll take a little discomfort to achieve the joy of driving my Boxsters. Don’t get me wrong the 991 ‘S’ is an amazing car. If I had a 3 car garage there might also be a Cayman, probably would commute to work in it a lot.

[WhipE350]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

losing feedback is a mortal sin for THIS type of car. Fine for bloated GT or GT-lite or GT styled convertible. Engineering should revolve on avoiding that as much as possible. In fact they should engineer new ways to have MORE feedback.
How? Who knows that's why they rake in millions. It's not very imaginative to simply turn a sports car into a cushy, insulated plush yuppy mover. People are quick to point out that it's lighter, more powerful but it's pretty obvious that these things are driven by arriving at the lowest lap time (N-ring specifically) and not maximizing the driver's role.
But those are two incongruent objectives. Faster N-ring times mean the car must do more and the driver less -- certainly with more and more power that can put the average inexperienced , deep-pocketed driver up a tree with one errant move. So feedback becomes a secondary goal and you get less and less with each new generation. They are slowly destroying the key element of the roadster experience. It's like playing a video game on the easiet level because that's the one where you drive fastest and your mistakes never slow you down.

Do you use blades and balata golf balls too

[Squozen]

Oh, I really shouldn't have come to the forum now. I want nothing more than to go for a drive but I'm waiting on replacement rotors to arrive. MY LIFE IS PAIN!

[southernstar]

I suspect that the 981 is going to be a huge success. Opinions vary, of course, but I think the new body is very attractive while being much more aggressive than the 986/7. The headlights? They blend in well IMO and certainly look similar to the headlight set-up of many of the Porsche 908 and 917's from endurance racing in the early 70's. Do I like the electric steering? Not having tried it, I probably would prefer the additional feel of my 986. However, I suspect that it is less of an issue than many believe. Indeeed, I recall the outrage of many when Porsche moved from manual to power steering on the 911 and, there can be no doubt that even hydraulic power steering elimiinates the direct mechanical connection of non-assisterd steering (alhtough with the size of current tires, the effort that would be required without power assist is virtually out of the question).

Do I like the electric emergency brake? Again, no - to me it is an unnecessary complication to a straightforward mechanical system. Would this stop me from buying a 981? Of course not.

I very much like the increased use of aluminum in the structure (and the reduced weight, in spite of increased size, over the 987). I love the increased efficiency of the new top (quieter and faster to operate). On the other hand, I miss the more finished look that was derived from the metal tonneau that was fitted on the original. I like the increased interior dimensions ( which will also prove important for those who are mcuh more than 6 feet tall), but also miss the unique curvaceousness of the 986 interior (and the lower shft knob).

Is it a win/win? Nothing ever is. Yes, it loses a bit of the uniqueness that was achieved when Porshce first introduced the Boxster in 1996. Is the design as clean and uncluttered as the 986? No, and while I quite like the new 981, I still prefer the clean, almost feminine lines of the 986; the historical cues from the 550 Spyder and the incredible symmetry in that design - note the repetition of modified 'C' forms in the front grills, headlights, front wheel openings, door handles, tail lights, side window and top profile, rear center light, head rests, roll bars, gauge hood, etc., etc. that was carried so elegantly throughout the entire 986. But the new car is handsome indeed and will no doubt eliminate much of the criticism that that 986 received for being a 'chick's' car - there is nothing feminine about it, for those who are concerned about such things.

For those of us who prefer the earlier cars, we get to keep them and have a good supply of parts from a manufacturer that is becoming more and more profitable. If Porsche continued to live in the past, I have no doubt that would be on the road to insolvency and we would all be the losers. Vive the new Boxster!

Brad

[bfenster]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

losing feedback is a mortal sin for THIS type of car. Fine for bloated GT or GT-lite or GT styled convertible. Engineering should revolve on avoiding that as much as possible. In fact they should engineer new ways to have MORE feedback.
How? Who knows that's why they rake in millions. It's not very imaginative to simply turn a sports car into a cushy, insulated plush yuppy mover. People are quick to point out that it's lighter, more powerful but it's pretty obvious that these things are driven by arriving at the lowest lap time (N-ring specifically) and not maximizing the driver's role.
But those are two incongruent objectives. Faster N-ring times mean the car must do more and the driver less -- certainly with more and more power that can put the average inexperienced , deep-pocketed driver up a tree with one errant move. So feedback becomes a secondary goal and you get less and less with each new generation. They are slowly destroying the key element of the roadster experience. It's like playing a video game on the easiet level because that's the one where you drive fastest and your mistakes never slow you down.

Hmmm... I'll bet those Ford Model T's had great feedback

[Perfectlap]

The usual complaints have become common and are expected:
"this car is less of a Porsche than the last".

And oddly enough the Porsches with the most feedback are the ones that are most sought after, reel in the highest asking prices while the newer "disconnected" ones with less and less feedback end up as parts cars or are neglected when maintenance proves too expensive. Logic would tell you that a car that makes you look like a better driver than you actually are would be the one to get all the spending money thrown its way. Not the case.

When people complain that a car is less of Porsche than the one before it they're actually right. The huge increase in power made by these engines in just the last few years means that there must be more and more aids via computer. I don't see how that spells more driver involvement. I'm sure the cars could have been engineered for better safety, better fuel efficiency and more power WITHOUT dialing out the driver but those cars might actually be fun to drive. In fact in the wrong hands they could even be considered risky.

Originally Posted by MikenOH

I have not driven a 981 back to back with a 986, but in my short time in the car, I thought the steering felt fine. Maybe after 7 years in a 987, my recollections of how great the steering response was in a 986 has dimmed, but i felt the steering in new the car allowed the driver to put the car where they wanted and still allow the driving experience to be fun.

Without a doubt, HP losses, MPG numbers and the like are driving just about everything these days on new cars. I'm sure the Germans still want to get that "one with the car" feeling if possible, but with the above issues and ever widening tires, the steering response priority will suffer.

The only way to get back to the "holy grail" is to buy a used 986 or another true sports car with unassisted steering--all depends on where the priorities are for the buyer. Porsche is betting on--and I agree with them--that the improvements in the new car will widen the appeal to those that want a more civilized car, with additional creature comforts--while still having the performance capabilities that traditional Porsche customers expect in a car.

Having said that, I could have done without the Panamera's console; it may work in a Panamera but looks out of place in both the 991 and 981.

[blue2000s]

Here's my personal fun scale.

550 on the high end of fun, H2 being the opposite of fun.

[bfenster]

My new baby

Boxster S (6 speed manual)
Platinum Silver w/black top & interior
Wind Deflector
2-Zone Automatic Air Conditioning
Seat Heating
Automatically Dimming Mirrors
Power Sport Seats (14-way) with Memory
Bi-Xenon Headlights with Dynamic System
Navigation Module and PCM
BOSE® Surround Sound System
SiriusXM™ Satellite Radio Receiver
HD Radio® Receiver
Roll-bar painted in Exterior color
ParkAssist (front and rear)
Wheel center caps with Porsche Crest
LED lighting package
Sport steering wheel
Deletion of Model Designation

[RandallNeighbour]

Bfenster, that is gorgeous. Drool!

Oddball, non Porsche question: How's the HD reception when you're not in a strong signal area?

[Ghostrider 310]

Nice ride B! How's the Burdick boys treating you? Is that where you bought it?

[bfenster]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

Nice ride B! How's the Burdick boys treating you? Is that where you bought it?

Yes, Burdick's is where I bought it and they(Lee) treated me very well. I configured it per the Porsche site to my specs and waited. Traded my 07 Boxster

[Ghostrider 310]

I'm glad to hear that, so far they have been good with me too, although I found their sales department to be incredibly lazy. I like my car better but I might have considered that now crusty 911 they have been sitting on two years if they had shot some numbers at me.

[bfenster]

Originally Posted by mrjr1000

WhipE350

Did you notice any restriction to your vision compared to your 986? I read someone who purchased new 981 but indicated vision was obstructed by taller rear end.

And headrest/roll bar seemed to restrict vision.

What say ye?

I recently took delivery of a 981 after owning a 2007 987. Rear visibility on the 981 is less with the top down. Probably similar with the top up.

[Ghostrider 310]

Are you related to Jfenster? She has two 911 cars a 124 Fiat and a benz