Anyone Master Downshift Rev-Matching

[Frodo]

Originally Posted by san rensho

I'm not recommending double clutching, my method uses the clutch just once, just blip as you are going through neutral. Its no slower than putting it in the lower gear first, then blipping, it actually faster, you are doing two things at once, blipping the throttle and moving the gear shift.

And blipping while going through neutral does save a modern synchro mesh tranny. Even with the clutch depressed, there is some drag in the clutch and blipping the throttle while in neutral will spin up the input shaft some, which means the synchro has to do less work.

I'm pretty much positive I'm over-thinking this...but I have to ask: When you're doing this your way (blipping as you are going through neutral---presumably you're talking about the instant before down-shifting), do you again blip as you release the clutch? Or is it just one longish blip that both meshes the synchros (as you down-shift) and makes for a smooth transition as the clutch is released in the lower gear?

[san rensho]

Originally Posted by Frodo

I'm pretty much positive I'm over-thinking this...but I have to ask: When you're doing this your way (blipping as you are going through neutral---presumably you're talking about the instant before down-shifting), do you again blip as you release the clutch? Or is it just one longish blip that both meshes the synchros (as you down-shift) and makes for a smooth transition as the clutch is released in the lower gear?

Its just one blip. Essentially, I'm doing two things at once, blipping and shifting. As soon as I put the clutch in I blip, at the same time, I'm also moving the gearshift to downshift.

[Frodo]

Gotcha. Thanks.

[shadrach74]

Frodo,

You will get a feel for it. On occasion, I will blip the throttle a second time if the situation warrants it.

[jaykay]

Originally Posted by san rensho

Its just one blip. Essentially, I'm doing two things at once, blipping and shifting. As soon as I put the clutch in I blip, at the same time, I'm also moving the gearshift to downshift.

Yep if you can blip to cover the synchro and clutch engagement everytime you have got it down.....when I am on the track under pressure in heavy work zones and am worried about balky shifts I blip coming through neutral to make sure the lever moves into gear and another for the clutch...this is usually for 2nd. The revs stay up nicely but I am likely slower for it

I will start trying a longer blip to cover both a bit more in those cases

[grubinski]

I find it helpful to make sure the throttle is at least cracked open a bit (not fully closed, even if you are still braking) as you let the clutch out. That way, if you have missed slightly low on the revs when you blipped, you don't upset the car with engine braking due to a closed throttle in the lower gear.

[CoBeerToad]

I might be on the wrong page here, but maybe this might be helpful. If not call me a noob and ignore.

I don't use my clutch after getting into second gear when up shifting, or when down shifting. When preparing for a down shift, I just rev up the motor a bit and when the tension is off the shifter, I pull it into neutral. Then I rev up the motor enough and push on the shifter. When it hits it's "shift zone" it will pull the shifter into gear. Perhaps I am killing my transmission by doing this. It doesn't feel like I am. And I have never ran into any problems with any of the manual cars I have driven.

Up shifting is about the same as all manual transmissions have, what I heard referred as a "shift zone." I rev up 1st too high to shift into second without the clutch, but all the other shifts are very easy. I just run second and I'll go past the "shift zone" a bit and pull the shifter out of gear and then push it into third. When the RPMs drop a bit, it just grabs right in. (Obviously, this is not for racing).

[san rensho]

What you are doing is double clutching without using the clutch. As long as you hit exactly the right rpms, it will shift every time, but get it a little wrong and it grinds hard, and you are shaving off all kinds of bits on the gear teeth. Problem with your method is that it is very slow and very prone to error, and a big learning curve where you are damaging the gears.

I've done this when the clutch on one of my previous cars went completely. I had to start the car in 1st gear, bucking alll over the place, then shifting to second and 3 and back down while limping home. Not fun but doable.

[Frodo]

Originally Posted by san rensho

I've done this when the clutch on one of my previous cars went completely. I had to start the car in 1st gear, bucking alll over the place, then shifting to second and 3 and back down while limping home. Not fun but doable.

I had the same experience ages ago (in the '70s) when a girlfriend and I were traveling in her car, a Toyota IIRC. Drove it all the way from Harpers Ferry, WV, to Charlottesville, VA with no clutch. Got pretty good at it along the way. You're right: starting out is the tough part. Once you get rolling, you do everything humanly possible to avoid coming to a complete stop. It can get kinda tricky, especially timing stop lights, especially if there's much in the line of traffic.

[jmatta]

I've done this when the clutch on one of my previous cars went completely. I had to start the car in 1st gear, bucking alll over the place, then shifting to second and 3 and back down while limping home. Not fun but doable.

I had this happen to my '86 911 at the track and drove 123 miles home w/o a clutch. Very doable, if you have a feel for the spot where everything meshes.

I don't even think about my heel & toe method...it just comes naturally with practice.

[ekam]

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