Downshifting to First Gear q - new boxster owner

[Frodo]

Since we've somewhat gotten onto this subject anyway, a h/t question, something I've never quite understood:

When you are braking and simultaneously 'blipping' the throttle, is the blip to

(1) rev match engine & transmission (ie you're doing it while the clutch is depressed and you are downshifting---after which you shift your right foot off the brake and back over to the accelerator to give it gas while letting the clutch out), or

(2) rev match the engine & wheels (ie you're doing it as you let the clutch out to accelerate, as in out of a turn)?

I'm guessin' it's (1), since the other suggests you're braking and trying to accelerate at the same time. But (acknowledging it'll wear your synchros faster) it's entirely possible to brake/clutch/down-shift all simultaneously without out blipping the throttle at all, until you start letting the clutch out. Is h/t primarily to save the transmission, or is it actually a faster way of negotiating a turn on a track?

[yimmy149]

Agree with others, I only downshift to first when I'm in a parking lot.

One thing to note, while you can shift to neutral at any speed - it's not wise to do it much over 25mph. Reason being, if you engine happens to stall, you'll lose power steering & brake assist.

-james

[san rensho]

Originally Posted by Frodo

Since we've somewhat gotten onto this subject anyway, a h/t question, something I've never quite understood:

When you are braking and simultaneously 'blipping' the throttle, is the blip to

(1) rev match engine & transmission (ie you're doing it while the clutch is depressed and you are downshifting---after which you shift your right foot off the brake and back over to the accelerator to give it gas while letting the clutch out), or

(2) rev match the engine & wheels (ie you're doing it as you let the clutch out to accelerate, as in out of a turn)?

I'm guessin' it's (1), since the other suggests you're braking and trying to accelerate at the same time. But (acknowledging it'll wear your synchros faster) it's entirely possible to brake/clutch/down-shift all simultaneously without out blipping the throttle at all, until you start letting the clutch out. Is h/t primarily to save the transmission, or is it actually a faster way of negotiating a turn on a track?

HT downshifting is done on the straight, before you you turn in. The whole time you do this procedure you are on the brakes. You get on the brake, then you put depress the clutch, while you are still pressing on the brake you immediately downshift to the lower gear. With the clutch still depressed, you either roll the top of your foot , or rotate your heal to the accelerator and press down to blip the throttle. As soon as you blip the throttle, you let the clutch out. If you did it right, the car will neither accelerate or decelerate when you let the clutch out, The art of HT is how much you blip the throttle and the instant you let the clutch out.

It takes a lot of practice. When you get it right, its a thing of beauty.

Now if you really want to save your synchros, you have to double clutch downshift, but thats another complicated lesson.

[jb92563]

I am new to my 2001 'S' 6 speed and after 3 days of driving I have to concur that downshifting to 1st is rather pointless as its done under 10mph and you are virtually stopped
already, however you must for all the other gears because its fun, sounds good and reminds other drivers that you are driving a sexy SPORT car with a racing heritage not an ecobox lunch bucket with wheels.

Downshifting is fun, saves the brakes and sounds cool. I have driven my MT Jeep wrangler for over 60,000 miles and still have good brake pads left.
I ussually only touch the brakes lightly to indicate to traffic behind that I'm braking, and coming to a complete stop on a slope.

The bliping of throttle to sync the engine/gearbox for a smooth transition in a downshift is an art and will take some time and practice to get it perfect as you learn your engines response time and hear its tone/rpm for the clutch timing but its also part of the fun.

Hearing your engines tone is the best way to time it, in my experience, as the Tach lags and will take your eyes off more important things. Shift indicators are worse than useless and to be ignored (in the jeep at least)

I would never shift to neutral while moving since you don't have control of your car anymore, ie you can not apply power to manuever or downshift or reduce throttle to brake, plus the gearbox and engine speeds get way out of sync and it will take more time to spool up when you want to go again.
Just downshift or keep the clutch depressed so the syncro can do its work.

[fatmike]

Originally Posted by Topless

When I teach it in performance driving, I suggest using 1st from a dead stop only. You could h/t downshift to 1st while rolling but it is unnecessary input. Minimum input is smooth and smooth is fast.

I use the same logic when approaching a corner going from 5th to 2nd. Instead of busying yourself running through the gears, apply full braking and h/t downshift to select only the gear you need for corner exit. Get your business done and be in the right gear before entering the corner so your foot is on the gas at apex. Minimum input, maximum focus on corner entry. These same techniques work well in traffic at a "less intense" level. Just building and practicing good driving habits that become second nature.

Disclaimer: These are only suggestions. It is your car and ultimately you can shift it any way you want. There will always be different opinions on this.

Topless is giving you good advise. Work on heel-toe, it will make you a smoother and safer driver.

[Ghostrider 310]

Originally Posted by fatmike

Topless is giving you good advise. Work on heel-toe, it will make you a smoother and safer driver.

Tag this onto the good advise, buy a cheap barely running beater manual to practice on. Tearing up a Porsche box on the learning curve is an expensive education, you don't get too many oopsies where as the 50's era VW I learned on could be nearly brutalized and still shift.

[pothole]

Originally Posted by RobbieKnobbie

+1

downshifting through the gears every time you stop is just shifting the wear from your brake pads to your clutch. Personally, I'd rather pay for a brake job given the choice.

Use the clutch for driving and your brakes for stopping

If you rev match your downshifts, you won't wear the clutch.

I'd forgotten just how much stress downshifts put on the clutch when you don't rev match until recently when I was in a GT-86 with a guy trying to drive fast but couldn't could heel and toe or even rev match on coast down. It was painful for the clutch and also upset the balance of the car horribly.

No wonder some people tear through a clutch in 40k and others see theirs last 150k. Even a fairly poor attempt at heel and toe is less wear on the clutch than not trying.

[thstone]

Brakes to slow, clutch/gears to go.

Use the clutch as little as possible and when you do, rev match. There's no point in downshifting sequentially, a 5-2 h/t downshift is the perfect answer.

Feel free to shift to neutral from any gear and coast/come to a stop using only the brakes. Saves wear and tear on the clutch and transmission. And if you're worried about losing power steering/power brakes, fix your engine because it shouldn't just cut out randomly.

[landrovered]

Driving a Porsche with a bad 2nd gear synchronizer will cure you of any desire to downshift when coming to a stop. It has been a great exercise that taught me to use the brakes and not the gearbox to slow the car. I find I drive a lot further into a braking zone when I am not rowing down through the gears.

[986_c6]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

Call me old school but I don't see the logic of downshifting to first period. You're either crawling in which case you can manage that in second more smoothly or going to stop which is always the better choice when going back to first. Some people hold the hill with their clutches too, never thought much of that practice either.

+1, old school here also.

[986_inquiry]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

Call me old school but I don't see the logic of downshifting to first period. You're either crawling in which case you can manage that in second more smoothly or going to stop which is always the better choice when going back to first. Some people hold the hill with their clutches too, never thought much of that practice either.

this

2nd goes down to ~8mph. By then it's time to use the brakes

[sb01box]

I do not down shift if I'm braking to stop. Otherwise I do downshift (even inti 1st) if the road condition dictates it. Try to downshift and fully engaged before going into the turn.

[shadrach74]

I downshift out of habit, but then I also costantly heal and toe out of habit. I can down shift into first any speed that is possible in that gear. My S will easily top 40mph in first, and there are turns that are tight enough to warrant the down shift. If you know what you are doing, it puts very little stress on the tranny/clutch...

[particlewave]

All good ADVICE, lol!

Yeah, it bugs me.

[pothole]

Originally Posted by san rensho

You are right, a properly executed heel and toe downshift will wear the clutch very little, but the operative word is properly executed. An under revved or over revved downshift can wear the clutch more than a launch from a dead stop.

Yup, I bought my Box with a heavy clutch on 70k. Local shop insisted it would go at any moment. Have been rev matching all my shifts and 30k later, the clutch is still going - and despite plenty of driving in stop start driving. It's non rev-matched downshifts that really wear out clutches.

Thus when you see these cars with clutch changes well under 100k, you know they haven't been driven properly.