99 vs 00 and their Values
 

Hello all. I've begun the search for my Boxster. I've found a 98 and 99 that I'm considering, but have yet to drive the 2.7. Is there a big difference in driveability between the two motors? I've found two in the Denver area that I'm considering. The drawback is neither have any service records. Ideally, I would like a fully documented car with all records, no accidents and my budget is $10k. The two I'm looking at have 105k & 91k. The 98 w/105k is very clean and owner has had it for 6 years for $8900. The 99 is at the local Porsche dealer and priced a bit high at $12,900. Should I hold out for a fully documented car and is my budget reasonable? (a 99 Silver/Red with IMS/RMS already done would be ideal! hehe) On a side note...would Nephrite Green interior negatively impact the resale of the car? Thank you, in advance for your input and any additional suggestions where to look aside from Cars.com/autotrader/this site would be appreciated!

IMO, between those two years the best conditioned, best optioned car wins. Any performance bump is always welcome but if I was going for a 2.7 I'd shoot for 03 and higher for the factory glass back top. Know this, any car at the mileage you are looking at is going to need some ongoing maintenance sooner than later. Having the IMS checked / replaced is a great idea as your investment can quickly become a 3K roller if there is an undiscovered problem. If you are going with the dealer work an IMS replacement and rear main seal right into the deal.

PS Resale of whatever you buy will be determined by condition, all the depreciation will be out of it by then, keep it running with a log of what you do and it can't sink much lower.

regardless of what car you end up with, service records or not, make sure you get a PPI done. if the seller will not allow it, walk away. might find a few negotiating points. personally, i'd like to get service records. and i say that as someone who bought his car without service records. i eventually tracked down the larger ones - RMS, recalls, brakes, tires, etc. by calling around. next time i buy, it will be imperative that i get service records. live and learn. i consider myself having come up with a fairly decent luck of the roll on that front - some buyers who get service records still end up with major issues.

the 99 @ $12,900 seems a bit on the high side for my tastes. check around. no one says you have to buy a car that's local. a lot of people on here are finding great deals out of town, taking a short trip and driving it home. i imagine most would tell you it's a great way to start out your ownership - a nice road trip to get to know the car well.

most people with the smaller engine seem to complain about the lower power output at the lower end of the RPMs, which is where you are when changing gears and first starting out. the 2.7 has a little more torque. i drove both before getting my 2.7. it was marginally better but i can't say it was "night and day" difference. you'll have just as much fun on the winding roads in either, the 2.7 will just get up the hill a little faster.

color choices are personal. the "safer" the color the more cars there are with it. the more unique combinations are a little more "rare." for someone looking for a beige interior, a green one will be a negative. for someone looking for a green interior, it will be a great find. my suggestion is to get the color combination you like, not what you think will have better resale value.

when shopping for mine, i had settled on black exterior with either beige/tan interior or gray interior. ended up going with gray and i'm glad i did. i can't imagine a better color combination - but that's just me. i have no desire for a white exterior, but there are people (a lot it seems) that can't imagine getting anything BUT white. get the car you like now, not the one you think others will want in 5 years...

to give you an idea, i paid $14,500 for my '01 in 2009 @ 65k miles. have put nearly $6500 into it on maintenance and work - no upgrades just replacement parts, tires and oil changes. (i take that back, $1500 was to upgrade to the GAHH top.) so far i'm in for $21,000 and change. if i were to sell it today i'd price it around $11,500 @ 96k miles and see how it goes. i have all records since May 2009. so you can see where i think $12,900 for a '99 with no service records is a bit too high...

Speaklow, If you were closer, I would let you take a good look at my 99. I am thinking of selling. White,blue,blue with all records since new. Have birth certificate. All original with no mods. Garage kept,covered. All keys. Owner history. No rain. Eastern NC is about 6 hours below Ocean City Maryland. If by chance you get to the east coast ,PM me. Good luck with your search and try to find a good seller of a good car to be "passed on" to you. 92K all services 5 speed 2.5 Max

Also for comparison, i bought my 2000 2.7, 115k miles about a year ago for $7500, so both prices are high in my opinion. Its definitely a buyers market out there.

Don't be afraid to low ball the dealer. He probably took the car in trade and factored into the deal the fact that he will probably only get wholesale or below for the car. So play the waiting game with him. The car costs him money just sittiing on the lot, so if you come in a bit above wholesale for the car, he may bite, since he avoids the uncertainty of an auction.

Thank you all for your input, much appreciated! I absolutely will get a PPI, that is absolutely a must. Since I've first began my search, I think its wise to drive a 2.7 before I pull the trigger on anything...

After you drive the 2.7 you should give milliemax another read. Transporting a car isn't that much and getting one that has been dawdled on, is all original and documented is a good score. He doesn't like to get rain on it, that sir is a owner after my own heart.

I bought my '99 last August from the Porsche dealer in Vienna, Va. It was 12,700. It only had 66k. It had a small little crack in the plastic window. I ended up getting it for 12k. It ran fine doesn't have any problems. They said it was a local person and I found the service records.
The previous owner had the 60k service done, the AOS, Ignition switch and coolant tank done. For the DC area, I thought it was a good deal. This year I had the IMS, clutch, rms done so I wouldn't have to worry about that for the future. I think I'm good to go for a little while.

I think the 2.5 L engine generally had more problems with it so I'd keep looking for a 2.7L if you want a base car. Anything in the 85k and up miles will likely be in need of a lot of service if it hasn't already been done. Lots of suspension things, motor mount, water pump, etc.. all wear out at about this time or should be replaced preventatively if you're so inclined. If you're looking at a car with no records you have no idea what you may need to tackle right off the bat. A good PPI will let you know some of this but not all. A history with records is such a blessing with these cars.

Steve

Green interior? Most will only bite if offered at a steep discount.

A word to the wise... a PPI will only show you the obvious repairs. I have invested over $10k in repairs much of it on items that failed without warning. A high mileage porsche that has not had clutch,ims,shocks, aos, coolant tank, water pump, cats, 02's, rotor, etc. , adressed by 100k miles is priced deceptively low.

The only problem I know of that was unique to the 2.5 was the porous block issue. Any car running today with 50k+ on the clock almost definitely won't have that problem.

I'd say the early 2.5 and 2.7 lumps are about as solid as these engines get. Relatively low power and unstressed.

Re the 2.5 v 2.7 performance, there's very, very little in it. The main reason to go for a 2.7 is because you may end up with a slightly fresher car. But as someone mentioned above, I'd be choosing based on condition. I'd take a pin sharp 2.5 over a slightly tired 2.7 any day. If you can find a great 2.7, then you're really winning.

I'd also say a PPI is pretty pointless on these cars, assuming you generally know what you are doing when buying cars in general. It won't tell you if the IMS is about to go or if one of the heads is going to crack three months down the road.

#1 Your budget is very reasonable. Expect a very nice 98/99 with around 85K miles for $10K. Might not be fully documented but that shouldn't be a deal breaker.

#2 Get a PPI. It will be the best $300 that you ever spend. Repairs are expensive and the more you know about what you're getting into, the better.

#3 Don't overpay. Boxsters are a dime a dozen and its a buyers market in this economy.

#4 The '99 for $12.5 is overpriced. The 98 is priced right.

#5 Plan on a ~$2K per year maintenance budget to replace all of the older components as needed on a 10-12 yr old car.

I agree with the PPI you pointed out, if you educate yourself on what to look for and what goes wrong you can take the time and decide for yourself.

drive several so you know what is "normal" and not, I drove about 5 of them before settling on mine.

I skipped the PPI after talking to my friend of more than thirty years, a direct manufacturer's representative. A PPI is only as good as the mechanic doing it, if a selling dealer says they did one it means very little and is as variable as dealer service in general. The mileage you're shopping in PPI money can be used as preventative maintenance on what you already know should be replaced at 100K. Everything else on that car has 100K on it, springs, shocks, depending on how fussy you are making the car feel 100% might cost more than reaching up a little higher on the front end and paying a bit more monthly.

Yes Speaklow all the other posters make sense. I had a PPI done on my 2001 Boxster Base as I did not know much about P cars. Also check before u start the engine, turn the ignition on to illuminate all the lites on the dash. Make sure they all illuminate especially the check engine lite. Any significant burned out bulbs, then I would walk. Make sure you drive lots of Boxsters with different trim levels. Is PSM significant for you? How about leather seats? Mine is very basic, I think it has vinyl seats, no remote key entry and no psm. Yes the Boxster I bought had all the service history from the previous two owners. The PPI showed minor oil leak at rear of the engine and I got $2k off the asking price for that. Look at as many as u can and drive as many too. I bought the 2.7 litre for a bit more power. It was adequate but I am sure the 2.5 is good too. There should be lots out there. Take your time looking and enjoy!:)

Is Nephrite one of the two cars you're looking at? I happen to love it -- the first Boxster I ever drove in early 97 when buying an A4 was silver/Nephrite. I've NEVER seen one since. But it is definitely a polarizing color. It should sell for less than a silver/black car for sure, but now that you're down in the 10k range, it won't make a whole lot of difference. Condition is everything.

Very true but the PPI is hardly a good indicator of what you would most likely face.
as Don Rumsfeld said:

There are known knowns; there are things we know we know.

We also know there are known unknowns; what we don't have answers for.

But there are also unknown unknowns - things we don't have questions or answers for yet.

;)


I would budget a lot more than the standard $2K a year for a 2.5 or high mileage car. If the car was driven in or will be driven in cold weather than I'd say $3,500 a year wouldn't be out of the question. Virtually all of the Porsches I've heard of having low history of needed repairs were cars from Southern California or one of those that was repatriated to a cold weather state as garage queen -- a car not purchased for daily, year round driving. Winters and rough roads are very harsh on finely-tuned sports cars.
There really is no such thing as a $10K Porsche no matter the year or mileage. You could easily have two or three simultaneous repairs that account for 20% of the purchase price. Cost of repairs do not scale down with the lower price of entry.

I have driven the 98' 2.5 and bought my 00' 2.7 in October 2010 for $9700 with 77,000 miles. Only changed water pump and a few light bulbs and a tie rod so far. Less than $800 in repairs total.

There is a pretty BIG difference in top speed and acceleration. But in normal every day driving, they pretty much feel the same and sound the same.

Green in either interior or exterior immediately drops 20% off the value of the car in most estimates I've seen.

All prices are local and are what the buyer is willing to pay. Even looking at big sites with lots of listings like cars.com or autotrader.com or craigslist.org you have to understand those are asking prices and no one pays asking. You want to find a good car having driven a half dozen and a motivated seller. Still go there, used advanced search on the first two and enter the car you are looking at and throw out the highs and lows. Then discount about $500-$1000 and you'll get to what you should be paying. But condition is everything as tires are worth $600-$1200 depending, top another $1000 etc.

I had a PPI on my second Boxster and immediately spent $2k but I knew exactly what I was getting into (and it cost me next to nothing the next 5 years). Brakes, rotors, 60k service, alignment. But as someone said the PPI quality does depend on the mechanic...ask to see a previous one the guy did.

Don't buy the first one you see...says he who did twice and had excellent experiences with both Boxsters.

To the OP, this is handy in merging with traffic on highway on ramps and passing mini vans packing v6 power get in front of you in the fast lane.
And under braking, acceleration is a totally different feeling. But bear in mind that the 2.5 was a much lighter car than the later Boxsters.

Poudre Sports car knows what they're doing. My suggestion for the PPI.

Thank you all for your advice...I've already been in touch with Poudre to do a buyers inspection, now I just need to drive the 2.7...I'm pretty open to colors, but came across a few triple black ones...wow! If I could find one of t
hose with Litronic and heated seats, that would be perfect!

Just keep an eye out for one in good shape. Also if you are willing to do some repairs yourself sometimes it is worth picking up one that needs attention for far less. I picked up my 00 2.7 for $5500 he was asking $10500. I needed to change the motor mount, door spring, buff the headlights and I need to change the top (torn) I was able to find a complete black glass top with frame for $350. I still have not made it to $6k with my repairs. Keep looking there are tons out there.

When you look at a car from a private seller here is a little advice, be prepared to spend some time. Spend the first half hour focusing on the seller and what they do, family, friends, pets, interests ect... After a half an hour the seller will feel as you are a close friend and everyone always wants give a friend a deal. Spend the next half hour looking over the car and do not look very excited and find every problem you can and commenting on it without putting your new friend down. Finally ask the person what the asking price is and how much interest there is in the car. After all this let the seller know how much you have always wanted one and let out that the economy is bad and it has taken a real toll. Then lowball the hell out of him. See is he comes down at all and maybe come up just a hair. If he does not take the offer leave your number and let him know that you need to check your finances. Tell him that you want the car(if you do) and walk away!! Wait a couple of days and call the seller back. Spend about another 15 minutes catching up with your new friend and then discuss price. This method works 95% of the time. I have been using this method for years and used it last week. I purchased an 04 Discovery for $2700 when the asking was $6200

^ I have a friend who employs a similar strategy. But brings the wife to play the skeptic to point out all the blemishes.
Then he calls back and says, "great car but the wife unit has put the kibosh on anything over X. Can you do X?".

i'm all for getting the best deal you can, so i don't know how i'd classify this, but if i were selling my boxster and the guy said the economy "took a toll", and intimated he did not really have the money to buy one, and then tried to "lowball the hell out of" me, i'd quickly inform him that this probably isn't the car for him and ask him to leave.

Me too. I can't believe that kind of crap would work on anyone.

The only tactic that might work on me is a simple and immediate cash offer - ie, I have this cash on me right now, take it or leave it. In that situation - ie a real cash offer right in front of you, you have to weigh up the pros and cons of sitting on the car and whether you're likely to get a better offer or not. Any kind of spiel or patter would likely get my spidey sense twitching and make me less likely to deal.

A variation of good-cop/bad-cop and I'm sure my wife and I have employed a similar strategy. I've also done well by walking out and letting the sales guy suddenly figure out he can in fact do the deal at that price. It has worked as long as several days later when I get a call from the sales manager who now needs the sale for his quota/bonus.

WHOOAAA !!!! Amschnellsten, Focus on my wife,me and my animals?, find every problem?, talk about the economy?, LOW BALL ? ,. Your strategy on buying a Porsche is all class-----3rd class. I would not let you any where near my home much less my family . Go buy a used car off a buy here/pay here lot. MAX

I could never pull that off...Part of the funding for this new venture came from selling my Mercedes 300CE that I had for 6 years and spent lots of TLC (and money!) only to have potential buyers nitpick over miniscule rock chips and try to lowball me on this pristine car...left a bad taste in my mouth...now...if it was a cheesy salesman on a lot asking me 'What can I do to get you into this car today, son'...THAT would be a different story!!!

+1 Very, very true. This is probably the most under-estimated aspect of buying an older Boxster.

Max, just some advice that does work very well. If you think buying tactics and trying to bargain are 3rd class you are a sellers dream. If you would think about my tactics a little more you would also realize that you will get more information about the vehicle you are trying to purchase. For instance if the guy tells you that he is not married and picks up hookers every weekend you can bet that the interior should be inspected with a black light. If my tactics are not for you don't use them but telling me that I should go buy a car off a buy here/ pay here because I am 3rd class is rather petty and ignorant. If it makes you feel like you are a first class citizen by not bargaining, by not inspecting the vehicle for problems and commenting on them, by not finding out about the seller and their habits (relate how they treat the vehicle), and not trying to make friends, I am happy that I am a 3rd class citizen. :D

I have used this tactic on every car I have purchased in the last ten years and I go through a lot of cars. Besides the Boxster last year I picked up these little fellas and paid less for the two than most people ask for one rusty 356. Both are rust free arizona cars................ it's great to be 3rd class!
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...l/0c258639.jpg

Your right amschnellsten.


People do business with people they like. It's that simple.


I imagine that some of the folks on this board may come across as rather creepy when they ask about the dog or the wife. I suspect you make it comfortable - which is a great skill.




/

Thanks Fatmike. Your on the same page I am. :cheers:

If you are very friendly you can learn a lot about people and cars that they are selling. I guess I did not clarify enough for some. Please do not be creepy and walk up and start asking personal questions. Make a new friend just like a normal 3rd class citizen.

Interesting, for a 911 GT3 a green exterior rather than hurting you can get you some extra $$$.

This Viper Green Boxster "RS" :) has been for sale forever. Aside from the horrific deviated seats and the RS side stripe, I think it's pretty cool. Not saying I'd buy it, but it's neat to see. I bet you could offer to swap somebody who has a late-model black car with all black interior for these black/tan seats and wind up with a full black interior, which would be such an improvement!

I'm also not big on "bringing the green inside," in the form of the vent rings and the shift pattern, but that's not a biggie either.

Act now! Only 10 hours left...

Porsche : Boxster Porsche : Boxster | eBay

You're right that car has been sitting a long while, I don't get the show winner appeal or especially the RS badge. What is RS about it? It's all cosmetics that boast of something greater but come up short. It's like that Cayman that Manthey built, the article says he put 20K in it. He claims 315 hp for the intake mods but at 20K more why not buy a Cayman R, get the performance cheaper and skip the Manthey hood badge?

The Green Boxster was at the Mille 2011. I was not crazy about it in any of the pictures I have seen but in person it is gorgeous. It was parked next to a white Spyder and I was having a hard time deciding which I liked best (I think I decided on the Spyder). I agree it would be a lot better with a Black interior but I think the owner was going for something that was unique. It is a beautiful car but unfortunately the market is not there to get what he wants out of it with the new Boxster around the corner. It is a beautiful car and I wish him luck in selling it.

It will be a tough sell, for sure. 981 on the horizon, unusual and VERY bright color really limits the potential market, and aforementioned breeches of good taste all conspire to make this one fairly sale proof at anything but below-market rates.

Amschnellsten, Sorry I am late on this reply. You say, "spend some time" "focus on the seller" Lets do that. I built from the ground up 3 companies that employed professional sales people. So you say you will spend a half hour getting to know me ? Wrong. Lets just say I have no family, no friends, no pets, and no interests except running my business. Now what do you do? Lets just say my car is showroom condition. How could you NOT look excited because you just met the perfect car ? You say "find every problem" There are NO problems. What are you going to do now ? So now you want to talk economics ? Have you ever met a payroll ? Built a multi million dollar company ? So, you see how I feel about your "sales unskills". You would not make it past the first phone call as I would immediately see thru you. You seem to be young and there is time for you to mature (with training) into a good negotiator. MAX