deal on Michelins - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

BuffaloBoxster · 06-24-2005, 06:02 AM

Not to be a killjoy, because I know the Michelins are great tires, but I'll never put another of that company's products on any of my cars thanks to the fiasco I wated my time and money on at Indy last week.

Adam · 06-24-2005, 08:40 AM

Yeah, I heard something about Michelin and an F1 race. What happened, they wouldn't let some of the drivers race because the tires were defective or something? Still, I wouldn't let some isolated event like that influence you from buying some of the best tires in the world. Maybe there is more to it...I dunno.

Pilot2519j · 06-24-2005, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuffaloBoxster

Not to be a killjoy, because I know the Michelins are great tires, but I'll never put another of that company's products on any of my cars thanks to the fiasco I wated my time and money on at Indy last week.

Man i feel your pain I went to the Grand Prix du Canada and it was great! Must say that the Renault right now are way over the curve. They took off like rockets and left everyone else behind. Reliability caught up to them and Alonso crashed into the wall of champions and that was it. Schuey made it close at the end when the Bridgestone finally kicked in. Another few more laps he would have passed him.
The issue with the tires and F-1 is unique. I would like to know what was Michelin thinking when their tires could not hack it. Oh Bridgestone lets put a chicane to slow the race down so i can race with my inferior tires. FIA did right in not bending the rules but this should have been done before hand not at race time. Everyone there deserves a refund for the tickets plus lodging plus a big fine levied against Michelin. It is a shame Michelin did this. So harmful to the sport that is trying to get into the mainstream of car racing here.

9000RPMan · 06-24-2005, 08:56 PM

I agree. I will never purchase Michelin products because of their behavior at Indy. Not because of their failure to bring proper tires, all manufacturers sometimes make mistakes, but for their insistance that the track be altered to suit their tires, or they would refuse to participate. Talk about throwing the rattle out of the pram! I also blame the teams for forming on the dummy grid, and then pulling in during the warm up lap. It showed complete disregard for the fans, while protecting their legal position against the race promoter (by driving the warm up lap, they have fulfilled their contractual requirements to Indianapolis Motor Speedway). Sad!

JackG · 06-25-2005, 06:40 AM

Don't forget that the tires were *unsafe* in the area of the track that they wanted to place the chicane. If the teams would have gone ahead and run the race, it is likely that there would have been tire failures, wrecks, and possible deaths. Is that really what everyone wants?

Yes, Michelin failed to produce a tire that could hold up to the stress in that one area of the track. When they realized it, they proposed a solution that would let them still run their cars without exposing their drivers to excessive danger. When that didn't fly, they protected themselves by running the warmup lap, then did the only thing they could do... they protected their drivers by pulling out of the race.

It sucks to spend all the money that fans did, just to see that. Would you rather see a couple of drivers die? You'd be screaming for Michelin's head if they knowingly let their drivers run tires that wouldn't hold up, and someone died.

I think they did what they had to do.

Jack

99-Boxster-MK · 06-25-2005, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackG

Don't forget that the tires were *unsafe* in the area of the track that they wanted to place the chicane. If the teams would have gone ahead and run the race, it is likely that there would have been tire failures, wrecks, and possible deaths. Is that really what everyone wants?

Yes, Michelin failed to produce a tire that could hold up to the stress in that one area of the track. When they realized it, they proposed a solution that would let them still run their cars without exposing their drivers to excessive danger. When that didn't fly, they protected themselves by running the warmup lap, then did the only thing they could do... they protected their drivers by pulling out of the race.

It sucks to spend all the money that fans did, just to see that. Would you rather see a couple of drivers die? You'd be screaming for Michelin's head if they knowingly let their drivers run tires that wouldn't hold up, and someone died.

I think they did what they had to do.

Jack

I fully agree...

Mike

TOM986 · 06-26-2005, 01:28 PM

Just remember that that corner has been at Indie for many years and Michelin should know how to make a tire to stand up to it. If they do such a poor job with this much riding on it, what will they do with their lowely passenger tires. I will NEVER buy MIchelins.

Pilot2519j · 06-26-2005, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackG

Don't forget that the tires were *unsafe* in the area of the track that they wanted to place the chicane. If the teams would have gone ahead and run the race, it is likely that there would have been tire failures, wrecks, and possible deaths. Is that really what everyone wants?

Yes, Michelin failed to produce a tire that could hold up to the stress in that one area of the track. When they realized it, they proposed a solution that would let them still run their cars without exposing their drivers to excessive danger. When that didn't fly, they protected themselves by running the warmup lap, then did the only thing they could do... they protected their drivers by pulling out of the race.

It sucks to spend all the money that fans did, just to see that. Would you rather see a couple of drivers die? You'd be screaming for Michelin's head if they knowingly let their drivers run tires that wouldn't hold up, and someone died.

I think they did what they had to do.

Jack

Other than calling them in a polite way a**holes I can't come to terms with their actions. Safety is paramount granted but the obligation to the public overrides that. MIchelin had ample time to prepare for this race and they had all the data from all previous 5 events there. It would be ludicrous to believe their "raison" oh we made a boo boo.

The tires are engineered not by one person but a whole team of engineers on this case they should fire the whole team. The FIA in their study came to the conclusion that chicane would not reduced Michelin's problem but even compound it. It was an outright sham to line up and then go the pits. As far as I/m concerned fine them right up to the nose for this grieveous infraction. I would like to imagine this incident done in Europe or any place the fans would have burned the place down!
The FIA should do away with the one tire rule for the whole race since it is a safety issue. It already has happened to Raikkomen, R Shumacher but so far escaping the grim reaper. Eventually the laws of probability will catch up and blood will be spilled. It is unsafe to use the same of tires the same race because it deludes the faster concept favoring tempering your race to save the tires. In car racing that is dumb, always has , always will.

JackG · 06-26-2005, 06:59 PM

[QUOTE=Pilot2519j]Other than calling them in a polite way a**holes I can't come to terms with their actions. Safety is paramount granted but the obligation to the public overrides that."

"the obligation to the public overides that"? Overides Safety? You are kidding, right?

They have an obligation to you, as the public, to spill blood to reduce your disappointment?

I've never heard something so infantile in all my life!

Reality check... engineering is not infallible. Mistakes are made. Guess what... my, and your, Boxster is not perfect, even with scores of engineers working on its design! Michelin tried to suggest a solution that would keep them in the race, the playing field would still be level, and *you* would not have been disappointed. Instead, the governing body shot it down. They are who you should direct your anger toward, because the entire field would have run, on the same track, with Michelin's proposed changes.

I *applaude* Michelin on taking their driver's lives as being more important than your personal satisfaction.

Pilot2519j · 06-26-2005, 08:24 PM

I *applaude* Michelin on taking their driver's lives as being more important than your personal satisfaction.[/QUOTE]

First I am not attacking you personally so don't take it wrong even though you allege "I am very infantile over this". I'm an engineer and I know things go wrong at any time nor am proposing Death Race 2000 either but how much time does Michelin need for a track in which they have raced 5 times in the same configuration? On the other hand Bridgestone had the tire for the race. Same configuration same curve same everything, they did their homework and were ready. You are trying to convince me that because one team is not ready Bridegstone, FIA & Indy Grand Prix should acquiesce to Michelin's arrogance. "I don't think so". They should have raced at the tolerance of the tire. IF that means they have to go 45 kph so be it. Their problem, their snafu, engineering faux pas what ever you want to call it their image right now is at rock bottom. I still will emphatically tell you Michelin would not have tried this in Europe.