Engine change problem. Water pump impeller chewed up....Where's the pieces?

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Originally Posted by JFP in PA

If your engine had already “detonated”, and was in the process of stopping when shrapnel got to the pump vanes, you wouldn’t be searching for the vanes, they would still be near the pump, along with the chunk(s) of metal shrapnel that tore them loose (which also would not have have had time to been reduced to small bits and dispersed). If the vane debris totally disintegrated and made it all the way to the radiators, they had to have time to do so; the pump failed first.

i completely disagree. let's say it took ten seconds from the start of the problem until the motor quit turning. at full tilt, byron was likely averaging 6,000 RPM's.

the water pump pulley is a little smaller than the crank pulley. let's say it's 15% smaller. this means the water pump would have turned 1.18 revolutions for each crank revolution.

at ten seconds, we're looking at over SEVEN HUNDRED rotations of the water pump during the failure. this is enough time to circulate the entire contents of the cooling system MANY times over. the missing debris is in the radiators.

[JFP in PA]

Theoretically interesting, but practical experiences say otherwise. Byron is of the impression shrapnel from his grenadeing M96, complete with holes in the block, tore up the pump; but if that were the case, there is no way the engine continued to run for ten seconds after dispatching a rod through the block, or even two seconds for that matter. These engines stop pretty quickly when things are lashing around the inside. So if the shrapnel from the failure got into the pump, the engine should have already been slowing considerably. Looking at his photos of the impeller, there are no vanes at all. Small metal bits would take a lot of time to do this, so I would expect to find some fairly large metallic chunks that would be required to do that amount of damage in a very limited time in or near the pump; but none are visible in the photos, and he has not mentioned finding them. The photos also do not show the gouging in the housing, or on the impeller disc itself, which begs a question: What size and shape object(s) could have gotten into the pump and proceeded to very quickly and cleanly cut off all the vanes, and then vanish entirely (along with the vanes) without leaving any other marks? That is why I questioned the supposition in the first place, the photos do not appear to support it.

When daily drivers/street cars have the vanes break off, and then drive to my shop, and we located most if not all of the bits in or near the pump housing and thermostat housing areas, sometimes after as much as an hour’s running time…..

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Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Theoretically interesting, but practical experiences say otherwise. Byron is of the impression shrapnel from his grenadeing M96, complete with holes in the block, tore up the pump; but if that were the case, there is no way the engine continued to run for ten seconds after dispatching a rod through the block, or even two seconds for that matter.

mine ran for about fifteen seconds before it stalled out. it still turned over a couple more times with the starter before it locked. byron - how long did your motor continue to turn over after you started seeing smoke? i think i remember you stating that the entire process (from the INSTANT you noticed a potential problem) took several minutes. am i correct?

[Byron in Atlanta]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPBjaIOwERU

I first heard the clatter at 45 sec, it quit running at 59 sec. Suffice it to say that it was running poorly those 14 seconds. I mainly coasted down the esses, and only gave it gas again to try and power up to the exit road. When I gave it that little bit of fuel is when the big puff of smoke happened.

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14 sec = PLENTY of time to circulate metal bits. have you drained the oil from the old motor yet? i think it would be worth a look. my guess is that it's got some froth in it. you said the coolant was oil-free, though?

i think i'd pull the radiators & take them to get reconditioned. ditto for the heater core.

Originally Posted by Byron in Atlanta

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPBjaIOwERU

I first heard the clatter at 45 sec, it quit running at 59 sec. Suffice it to say that it was running poorly those 14 seconds. I mainly coasted down the esses, and only gave it gas again to try and power up to the exit road. When I gave it that little bit of fuel is when the big puff of smoke happened.

[Byron in Atlanta]

No water in oil or vice versa

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Byron in Atlanta

No water in oil or vice versa

"Quod Erat Demonstrandum". If there was no intermixing of oil and water, how did engine metal shrapnel get into and destroy the pump? Short answer: It didn’t, the pump failed.