Drove 4 Carreras today - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

blue2000s · 12-22-2010, 07:20 PM

A buddy of mine is shopping for 911s. I went with him to the dealership today and we drive 4 different 911s, C4S manual, C4S PDK, Targa4 PDK, and a standard Carrera manual. The PDK C4S had PASM, the 6-speed had the sport crono plus, the Targa 4 and Carrera had the standard suspension. All had 19 inch wheels.

My impressions:
-The PDK is so smooth, you can't feel the shifts. It's a great auto shifing transmission.
-The 6 speed makes the more involving experience. Driving around on the streets with the PDK is pretty much the same experience as an automatic. The stick shift is still the more involving car.
-The RWD car is noticeably lighter on it's feet, more tactile, and more entertaining to drive.
-The Targa is ALOT of glass.
-We both agreed, the standard suspension has better feedback and is preferred, even to the sport mode in the crono package. Even though the Targa is heavier and the Carrera is lighter than the 2 C4Ss, both cars with the standard suspension were more alive than the ones with PASM.
-The 3.8 is pretty torquey and more powerful than the 3.6, but on the street, the difference probably isn't worth the cost.
-I wouldn't take any of them over my Boxster.

My buddy went into the dealership thinking that he wanted the C4S and was undecided about the transmission. Now he's totally confused because the car we both liked the most wasn't the one he expected and he liked both transmissions for different reasons. I told him to buy 2 cars, but I don't think he's cool with that plan.

PlayersExpress · 12-22-2010, 08:26 PM

For the money he would spend on something new... tell him to pick up a nice, low mileage boxster S and drop a Raby 3.8x51 into it..... preform which ever other mods, and pocket the rest towards a GT2 or GT3.

r9i8c7k · 12-23-2010, 05:42 AM

Every time I've had the opportunity to drive a 911 I've come back with greater appreciation for my 987.

Perfectlap · 12-23-2010, 06:03 AM

I suggest driving a 997 GT3. preferably in white.

husker boxster · 12-23-2010, 06:18 AM

You should suggest he try a Cayman.

AndyA6 · 12-23-2010, 06:43 AM

This is interesting!

I am on my 8th Porsche, if you count a VW Beetle make it 9

I started with a 356('62), 2 911 SC('78 + '83), 1 928S ('86),1 C4 ('89), 1 C2('90 and modded), 1 Cayenne S ('08 wife, does not count here!) and now the '04 Boxster S. Besides above I had classic Alfas like Bertone, Spider, Gulia, various BMWs etc etc etc

Most recently I drove regular non-optioned C2, PDK C4S, new Box S and the Spyder.

After all that I wish for 1 thing only, a bit more power in the '04 S. The handling with the stock supension and 17" wheels is very nice and plenty "fast", the soft top is a great morning canyon run or evening sunset cruise option, it feels light and alive, the steering is hard to beat by ANY other car. Over time I might do a bit in terms of handling to get closer to the Spyder and def. some engine work. This for the track days.

Conclusion:- my used Box is so much fun and compared to today's 911 offerings I don't see the big reason to change. Now having said that I still want a GT3, closest thing to the old school aircooled cars. Even a real good/sorted 964 like mine built to RS specs would be cool.

Another reason I like the Boxster is more subjective, it has soul and feel. If you ever drove and owned a '70s Alfa or an aircooled Porsche you know what I mean. Of the modern Porsche lineup the Boxster is the one.

Later,
Andy

PS.: Jacked up in the garage the car is waiting for the next run......, but before I will start some work like the UD pulley I get from my wife for Xmas!!

Merry Christmas!

blue2000s · 12-23-2010, 08:48 AM

He's been dreaming about a 911 all his life. Although he's had the means for a long time, he hasn't been able to justify the purchase. He's an engineer like me. So it's 911 or nothing, no Cayman or Boxster, even though I tell him how much more of a driver's car it is.

jmatta · 12-23-2010, 10:18 AM

I notice you didn't list the 997 Carrera S as an option? The 3.8 with the six speed trans is a great set-up and retains the feel of the more basic car (not quite GT3 feel, but closer than the others).

The AWD cars feel sluggish and heavy to me.

Perfectlap · 12-23-2010, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue2000s

He's been dreaming about a 911 all his life. Although he's had the means for a long time, he hasn't been able to justify the purchase. He's an engineer like me. So it's 911 or nothing, no Cayman or Boxster, even though I tell him how much more of a driver's car it is.

Take him to an autocross if he can hold off the purchase until spring. A good analysis of pendulus cornering (rear engine) vs superior cornering (mid engine) will be the additional input that his engineering brain is not considering at the momment. If you're going to buy a performance car, and are stone cold quantitative in your approach, you can't make a conclusion that has sound integrity without witnessing these two different traits in the flesh.

But the Carrera is nicer looking. But no self-respecting engineer would justify such subjectivity.

Topless · 12-23-2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyA6

Conclusion:- my used Box is so much fun and compared to today's 911 offerings I don't see the big reason to change. Now having said that I still want a GT3, closest thing to the old school aircooled cars. Even a real good/sorted 964 like mine built to RS specs would be cool.

Another reason I like the Boxster is more subjective, it has soul and feel. If you ever drove and owned a '70s Alfa or an aircooled Porsche you know what I mean. Of the modern Porsche lineup the Boxster is the one.

Merry Christmas!

Agreed! My current favorite Carrera is the C2S PDK. I enjoyed driving one very much but it will probably never grace my garage.

Lordblood · 12-24-2010, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Take him to an autocross if he can hold off the purchase until spring. A good analysis of pendulus cornering (rear engine) vs superior cornering (mid engine) will be the additional input that his engineering brain is not considering at the momment. If you're going to buy a performance car, and are stone cold quantitative in your approach, you can't make a conclusion that has sound integrity without witnessing these two different traits in the flesh.

But the Carrera is nicer looking. But no self-respecting engineer would justify such subjectivity.

I always thought the Boxster is the best looking car Porsche makes at the moment. I never liked the bubbly rear end of 911's (and now Panamera), something which the Cayman fixes a bit but is completely revised on the Boxster.

At the end of the day, no matter how much money I had I'd probably buy a Boxster if I bought a Porsche new.

blue2000s · 12-28-2010, 08:23 PM

A C4S with sportchrono plus and PDK is the final decision. Wouldn't have been my choice, but the AWD makes for a great DD and the wide hips of the S are pretty damn sexy.

Idaho Red Rocket 3 · 12-28-2010, 09:17 PM

And I bet it even snows in Colorado !!

Perfectlap · 12-29-2010, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue2000s

A C4S with sportchrono plus and PDK is the final decision. Wouldn't have been my choice, but the AWD makes for a great DD and the wide hips of the S are pretty damn sexy.

nice choice. Tell him to take good care of it for me as I'll be in the market for one of those 4 wheelers once they've lost half their value.

Daily driven low milers will be at the top of my list.

p.s.
Sportchrono in what is essentially a GT?

ekam · 12-30-2010, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyA6

After all that I wish for 1 thing only, a bit more power in the '04 S. The handling with the stock supension and 17" wheels is very nice and plenty "fast", the soft top is a great morning canyon run or evening sunset cruise option, it feels light and alive, the steering is hard to beat by ANY other car. Over time I might do a bit in terms of handling to get closer to the Spyder and def. some engine work. This for the track days.

Conclusion:- my used Box is so much fun and compared to today's 911 offerings I don't see the big reason to change. Now having said that I still want a GT3, closest thing to the old school aircooled cars. Even a real good/sorted 964 like mine built to RS specs would be cool.

Another reason I like the Boxster is more subjective, it has soul and feel. If you ever drove and owned a '70s Alfa or an aircooled Porsche you know what I mean. Of the modern Porsche lineup the Boxster is the one.

I've test drove the new BMWs, Nissan Zs and I've yet to come across any modern sports car that has the same steering feedback as my 04. I couldn't believe how little do people know how underrated our cars are. People nowadays just buy cars by looking at the 0-60 time and how many HP under the hood, or how fast the ring time is.

I drove the new PDK 911s, they're impressive, but they're too expensive for what you get (Porsche admit they have higher profit margin on them than Boxster/Cayman). I didn't grow up wanting a 911, nor did I dreamt of a Porsche.

Now a GT3, perhaps a 996 GT3, now that I will take gladly. But I really have a soft spot for 356 Speedster (more attainable replica).

jmatta · 12-30-2010, 01:57 PM

After having driven most of the current 997 line up, I'd take a MkII 996 GT3 hands down for the dollar/value and the purity. The modern cars are just getting too large, heavy and more grand touring in feel than the earlier models.

blue2000s · 01-17-2011, 05:33 PM

We got a chance to directly compare my 2000S with my buddy's C4S on a nice little twisy road. We drove down the road and back, switched cars and did it again.

The 17" tires take alot of the edge off the ride. The C4S moves around alot more over bumps in the road. I was surprised, but the Boxster has a nicer ride, even with my row030 suspension.

Both cars corner flat and have tremendous grip. The Boxster is clearly lighter, it feels more eager to be tossed around. I like the Boxster's steering feel, it felt like it was doing more communicating, although the 911 is pretty great too. The 911 can hustle through corners faster than the Boxster could, easily matching the Boxster on grip but with much more power.

The Boxster's power isn't as weak as I had expected it to be compared to the 385hp of the 911. The acceleration of the 911 on an onramp is truely impressive. But the Boxster doesn't embarass itself.

The newer cars have much better engine sound. The 911 is deeper and angrier. Much more like what a Porsche should sound like.

Finally the PDK. It's an incredible transmission. The shifts are so smooth that you can't feel them at all and you don't have to coax it to downshift with an extra long stab at the throttle like an automatic. It just seems to always find the right gear, although the monster engine may be part of that equation. It's great. Having said that, i have no desire for such a transmission in my sports cars. The involvement and satisfaction that comes with the stick shift will never be matched by a car with two pedals. I'll take a stick every time.

Overall, both cars are really fantastic. Very entertaining to drive and satisfying. In the end, I still hold to my original feeling that I like the Boxster better. It's obviously lighter and is happier to rotate. It's slightly more of the sports car compared to the GT of the 911.

My buddy, on the other hand preferred his 911. He liked the ride of my car better, but he's become a big fan of his PDK and appreciates the power difference more than I do.

JoeFromPA · 01-18-2011, 03:50 AM

I recommend your buddy drive a 96-98 993 c2 and c4s in 6-speed manual only, since he's committed to the 911.

The look, feel, drive, and sound are all extremely mechanical and extremely Porsche. The feeling of lightness is, to me, better than my (early base) boxster. And it rode soo much better I was surprised (this was a c4s with the turbo suspension).

There is a reason 993's are ridiculously priced in alot of instances, and it goes beyond collectability. The car is just damn fun to drive.

clickman · 01-18-2011, 07:52 AM

When I first bought my Boxster I thought someday when I get rich I'll move up to the 911. I've come to realize that I prefer the Boxster, and there's no need to apologize. The only shortcoming, other than not being able to drive it when I have more than 2 people, is not having 911 displacement.

My long term goal is to sell my car, buy a roller, and put a Raby 4L in it. All for much less than a 911.

JAAY · 01-18-2011, 08:52 AM

What other mid engine cars are there out there that are even close to the price range of a box? A elise, is smaller and has nothing for comfort or class in my eyes. Cayman of coarse but.... They should have just put their tail between their legs and dropped a big f'n motor in a boxster and put that at the top of the line up! I hate that in all the porsche adds the boxster is always in order of the cheapest porsche. Sorry for my rant. :ah: