another dead boxster @#$%!

[ChrisZang]

so sorry about that.
I'd skip the call to the Porsche dealer (this will just make you upset) and start with Jake Raby

[02box]

Jake,
Yea, we all think, won't happen right now..... until it does.
I've already talked to my tow truck guy and they will deliver the car to you.
I'm just north of birmingham in cullman, AL.
when can I send the car to you? can I get your info off of your website?
you can email me personally at p.keefe@mindspring.com
Thanks Jake.

Pat Keefe

[Jake Raby]

Pat, email sent..
We look forward to working with you.

[stab1991]

Sorry to hear about your dilema, Hopoefully its not the IMS that failed. just curious, I have a base 2010 with the 2.9 Do I have an ims too?

[extanker]

Originally Posted by stab1991

Sorry to hear about your dilema, Hopoefully its not the IMS that failed. just curious, I have a base 2010 with the 2.9 Do I have an ims too?

09 up [gen2] dont have that old system......ours just smoke like hell on startups...well mine does

[Jake Raby]

Car is on the way now.. We'll make a posterchild out of this one, I'll share the pics, and mode of failure here on the forum.

[stab1991]

Originally Posted by extanker

09 up [gen2] dont have that old system......ours just smoke like hell on startups...well mine does

Thanks, and about the smoke on startup- we just dont look back. lol

[Perfectlap]

Jake Raby, are you free to ball park the number of IMS failures that have come to your shop and how long a time period that ecompasses?

[extanker]

Originally Posted by stab1991

Thanks, and about the smoke on startup- we just dont look back. lol

sometimes i cant see back there or i get someone telling me that my car smoked real bad....dealer says its normal...i say....porsche,what was i thinking

[stab1991]

Originally Posted by extanker

sometimes i cant see back there or i get someone telling me that my car smoked real bad....dealer says its normal...i say....porsche,what was i thinking

Havent seen this on mine, yet....

But I only have 1050 miles on mine so far. No oil use so far, which is good on these cars apparently.

[Jake Raby]

Which transport company do you use

Several different companies, depending on where the car is being shipped from.

and how safe are cars from damage, cosmetic or otherwise to and from,

We've never had a car damaged during shipping, and we've had hundreds of Porsches shipped to and from our facility spanning from 1952-2008. Shipping complications don't really happen, car shippers that we have chosen are reliable and professional. The biggest mistake that can be made is choosing the CHEAPEST shipper.

or at your facility?

While cars are at my facility the owner has the option of having them stored under lock and key with my own personal cars, under the same roof.

We have full security and surveillance systems with a 24 hour on site (armed) watchman. We don't have problems, period.

[Jake Raby]

Pat's Boxster just showed up. I'll get it up in the air tomorrow and diagnose it. I'll share the pics if it is a "failure".

[Jake Raby]

Here are a few pics of Pat's car being diagnosed..

First we drained the oil through a strainer to see what material was found.. Then we dropped the sump plate looking for debris but only found some of the IMS bearing seal. This leads me to believe the IMS bearing is going, but is not the primary cause for the car coming to us with its issues.
More in the next post with more pics..

[Jake Raby]

After seeing that the IMS probably is not the primary reason for this episode as the bearing seal is just now being compromised the diagnostic process continues in another direction..

At this point it could be something as minor as a blown Air Oil Separator (AOS)..

Then I noted an exhaust flange that was wet with oil on the 1-3 cylinder bank and that was suspicious.. See the pics.

The next step in diagnosis is finding out why that one exhaust flange is wet, if the issue is the AOS BOTH of the exhaust flanges would generally be wet with oil, so now I am thinking the engine had a failure on the 1-3 cylinder bank.

We have pulled the spark plugs and are in preparation for a borescope inspection, followed by a leakdown and compression test. When the #1 spark plug was pulled that cylinder was full of oil, so looks like we have found the smoking gun...

This engine hasn't been written off yet, it could still be nothing more than an AOS, but now I am thinking cylinder/piston failure or a valve failure that busted the piston.. The diagnostics will tell us.

Pat did the right thing, he shut the car down at the hint of a problem and did not try to re-start it, neither did we... We assume the worst from the beginning and then work our way out to the simpler things.. Lots of people approach this in an opposite manner, only to waste lots of time and the customer's money.

[Jake Raby]

Ok, compression and leakdown test results are in.. I have found some trend data that is leading me to believe the engine has a bent connecting rod.

Here are the compression and leak numbers:
#1= 270 PSI/ 19% leak down
#2= 235 PSI/7% leak down
#3= 230 PSI/5% leak down
#4= 220 PSI/7% leak down
#5= 235 PSI/7% leak down
#6= 230 PSI/7% leak down

The #1 cylinder was filled with oil when the spark plug was pulled for the tests.. A borescope test showed no signs of piston/ valve failure.

The high cylinder pressures of 31 are because the cylinder was pickled in oil, forcing the rings to seal off extremely, which is normal... BUT the high leak down numbers don't make sense as the leak down is entering the crankcase, as if the rings are not sealing.. This leads me to believe the engine had a failed AOS, it filled the #1 cylinder with oil and then hydro-locked thus bending the connecting rod. This would explain why dynamic compression is exceptional but static leak down is horrible.

The next course of action is to replace the sump plate, fill the engine with oil, replace the spark plugs and coil packs and then fire it up... If the engine has a rattle, we know its not the IMS bearing, because we know it is at stage 1 failure, but thats just a compromised seal.. If this rattle is found near #1 cylinder with the stethoscope then we can figure that the connecting rod is bent.

If the rod is bent, the engine will be issued a Death Certificate as the work to repair this on the 1-3 cylinder bank requires complete disassembly. If this is the case its a classic example of how an AOS can fail and create a secondary failure with enough collateral damage to kill the entire engine... Or the head could have cracked and dumped oil in the cylinder, or the scavenge pump on that bank could have failed, or, or, or.. it could be a new mode of failure we've never seen before.

So, after lunch we'll service the engine with oil, fire it up and see what happens... If it doesn't rattle we'll change the AOS then run the engine on the dyno, get it warmed up to burn all the oil out of the cylinders and then run a second compression and leak down test to see if the numbers on cylinder #1 are closer to those of the other 5 cylinders. Hopefully all 5 cylinders will be within allowable tolerances at +/- 10% differential across the board.

I'll report back...

[JTP]

This entire thread is amazing. From breakdown to analysis/diagnosis in Jake's shop within 24 hrs.
Jake, I really appreciate you explaining your thought process and logic rather than just posting your final findings. This allows alot of us with less knowledge and experience to follow closely and understand the process. If only my wife's cardiologist was as competent and forthcoming with information. I feel as if I'm standing next to Jake explaining all this to me personally. A virtual workshop.
My totally stock 2000 S is running great at the moment and that can give one a false sense of security but I know this type of failure is a real possibility. I will have to get more proactive in treating my car to some preventative maintenance.

[seningen]

Can you observe whether the Piston has less travel than the other
cylinders with a hand turn?

A hydrolock we had -- bent the connecting rod (effectively shortening it)
and the piston travel was shorter than the others -- I don't remember
by how much -- but it was visually noticeable.

Mike

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Ok, compression and leakdown test results are in.. I have found some trend data that is leading me to believe the engine has a bent connecting rod.

Here are the compression and leak numbers:
#1= 270 PSI/ 19% leak down
#2= 235 PSI/7% leak down
#3= 230 PSI/5% leak down
#4= 220 PSI/7% leak down
#5= 235 PSI/7% leak down
#6= 230 PSI/7% leak down

The #1 cylinder was filled with oil when the spark plug was pulled for the tests.. A borescope test showed no signs of piston/ valve failure.

The high cylinder pressures of 31 are because the cylinder was pickled in oil, forcing the rings to seal off extremely, which is normal... BUT the high leak down numbers don't make sense as the leak down is entering the crankcase, as if the rings are not sealing.. This leads me to believe the engine had a failed AOS, it filled the #1 cylinder with oil and then hydro-locked thus bending the connecting rod. This would explain why dynamic compression is exceptional but static leak down is horrible.

The next course of action is to replace the sump plate, fill the engine with oil, replace the spark plugs and coil packs and then fire it up... If the engine has a rattle, we know its not the IMS bearing, because we know it is at stage 1 failure, but thats just a compromised seal.. If this rattle is found near #1 cylinder with the stethoscope then we can figure that the connecting rod is bent.

If the rod is bent, the engine will be issued a Death Certificate as the work to repair this on the 1-3 cylinder bank requires complete disassembly. If this is the case its a classic example of how an AOS can fail and create a secondary failure with enough collateral damage to kill the entire engine... Or the head could have cracked and dumped oil in the cylinder, or the scavenge pump on that bank could have failed, or, or, or.. it could be a new mode of failure we've never seen before.

So, after lunch we'll service the engine with oil, fire it up and see what happens... If it doesn't rattle we'll change the AOS then run the engine on the dyno, get it warmed up to burn all the oil out of the cylinders and then run a second compression and leak down test to see if the numbers on cylinder #1 are closer to those of the other 5 cylinders. Hopefully all 5 cylinders will be within allowable tolerances at +/- 10% differential across the board.

I'll report back...