another dead boxster @#$%! - Page 2 - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Jake Raby · 10-13-2010, 06:08 PM

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Which transport company do you use

Several different companies, depending on where the car is being shipped from.

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and how safe are cars from damage, cosmetic or otherwise to and from,

We've never had a car damaged during shipping, and we've had hundreds of Porsches shipped to and from our facility spanning from 1952-2008. Shipping complications don't really happen, car shippers that we have chosen are reliable and professional. The biggest mistake that can be made is choosing the CHEAPEST shipper.

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or at your facility?

While cars are at my facility the owner has the option of having them stored under lock and key with my own personal cars, under the same roof.

We have full security and surveillance systems with a 24 hour on site (armed) watchman. We don't have problems, period.

Jake Raby · 10-13-2010, 07:11 PM

Pat's Boxster just showed up. I'll get it up in the air tomorrow and diagnose it. I'll share the pics if it is a "failure".

Jake Raby · 10-14-2010, 06:16 AM

Here are a few pics of Pat's car being diagnosed..

First we drained the oil through a strainer to see what material was found.. Then we dropped the sump plate looking for debris but only found some of the IMS bearing seal. This leads me to believe the IMS bearing is going, but is not the primary cause for the car coming to us with its issues.
More in the next post with more pics..

Jake Raby · 10-14-2010, 06:50 AM

After seeing that the IMS probably is not the primary reason for this episode as the bearing seal is just now being compromised the diagnostic process continues in another direction..

At this point it could be something as minor as a blown Air Oil Separator (AOS)..

Then I noted an exhaust flange that was wet with oil on the 1-3 cylinder bank and that was suspicious.. See the pics.

The next step in diagnosis is finding out why that one exhaust flange is wet, if the issue is the AOS BOTH of the exhaust flanges would generally be wet with oil, so now I am thinking the engine had a failure on the 1-3 cylinder bank.

We have pulled the spark plugs and are in preparation for a borescope inspection, followed by a leakdown and compression test. When the #1 spark plug was pulled that cylinder was full of oil, so looks like we have found the smoking gun...

This engine hasn't been written off yet, it could still be nothing more than an AOS, but now I am thinking cylinder/piston failure or a valve failure that busted the piston.. The diagnostics will tell us.

Pat did the right thing, he shut the car down at the hint of a problem and did not try to re-start it, neither did we... We assume the worst from the beginning and then work our way out to the simpler things.. Lots of people approach this in an opposite manner, only to waste lots of time and the customer's money.

Jake Raby · 10-13-2010, 12:38 PM

When I do a certified pre owned engine, I prefer the entire vehicle.. Thats because I want to install the engine here and I want to test it on the chassis dyno. I also want to throw my data logger in the car and test the engine to and from my house for a couple of days before release.

The cost associated with this isn't much more than shipping engines to and from the facilities, since we do require a "core" with the Certified engines. Generally shipping the entire car runs less than shipping the engines both ways! This way we also can provide specialized installation and test work to KNOW the engine is solid before shipping. This is especially critical because its a used engine and has no warranty, I won't warranty Porsche's engine, only those built completely here at my facility and completely updated.

The going rates for a certified pre owned engine is generally 7-10K, with that we do the following:
-Update the IMS bearing with the LN/ FSI unit
-Replace the water pump
-Replace lifters with FSI updated units
-Replace chain guides and vario-cam wear pads
-Replace clutch assembly
-Replace AOS
-Replace RMS with 997 unit
-4th and 5th timing chains replaced
-Install new LN Engineering lo temp thermostat
-Install LN Engineering Spin On Oil Filter Adaptor (SPOFA)

This program is proving to be very successful and is giving those who can't spend 18-22K on our fully updated engine a way to take advantage of our special services and a few of our parts without killing the bank account.

Yes, these prices are still more than the "rebuilds" of the mass producers, but if you compare notes you'll see that they don't even replace the AOS or lifters in their full rebuild, but we do these things to a "used" engine because they are simply required.

No, this engine doesn't come with the warranty or pedigree of a fully built FSI updated engine, but it is updated as much as possible under the same roof.

Pat,
I'll keep you updated when the car arrives and etc.. If its ok with you we'll use this thread as a way to communicate so people can see first hand what is associated with the aftermath of an engine failure. I'll post all the pics here and updates to the project as they become available.

As soon as the car arrives I'll take some pics and find it a stall in my stable until we can tear into it at the beginning of the coming week!

(Pat is a great sport, he was still witty even after experiencing what looks to be a full blown failure, most people act like their dog just got shot, for good reason)

mikefocke · 10-13-2010, 02:50 PM

that prevent turning a core into a CPO engine? In other words, I have a "massive" engine failure and I ship you the car, what could you find that failed that would prevent you accepting the car/core into this program?

And do you have a list of what you don't do to the CPO engine that you do do to the typical full rebuild? (I've always been fan of compare and contrast questions. And figure such a list would help people chose between the CPO and the full options.))

Jake Raby · 10-13-2010, 04:04 PM

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that prevent turning a core into a CPO engine? In other words, I have a "massive" engine failure and I ship you the car, what could you find that failed that would prevent you accepting the car/core into this program?

ANY core will be accepted, BUT these cores with massive failures will not ever be offered as a CPO engine, they will be dissected, studied, logged into our records and then their parts that are still good will be filed by part number in my "core bank".

The biggest issue that a CPO engine would have repaired is a cracked head. We are documenting all the repairs of these things and divulging them along with full documentation to the purchasers of the CPO engine, BEFORE we sell that engine to them.

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And do you have a list of what you don't do to the CPO engine that you do do to the typical full rebuild?

Not really.. but its a lot of differences, you are buying a premium 18-22K engine on one hand and on the other a CPO engine that has some upgrades made to it that can be done without being totally dismantled. There HAS to be a big difference for the difference in price.

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(I've always been fan of compare and contrast questions. And figure such a list would help people chose between the CPO and the full options.))

But the purchasers of the two are completely different.. The CPO purchaser can't even fathom spending 18-22K for an engine, while the purchaser of the updated engine appreciates the fact that he has a car that doesn't need to be touched again.

They are completely different products with radically different price points, both designed to fill a void.

jmatta · 10-13-2010, 04:26 PM

Makes me long for the LN bearing update...just turned 19k miles on my '02 3.2
S.

Jake Raby · 10-13-2010, 04:39 PM

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Originally Posted by jmatta

Makes me long for the LN bearing update...just turned 19k miles on my '02 3.2
S.

Learn from the original poster...

We have a trailer load of cars on the way down next week, including another from Chicago that has an engine failure.. On the way the truck will be stopping by Louisville KY to pick up a 996 with intermix.. May as well fill that truck up with cars headed to Flat Six!

Hell, we are going to start our own trucking company, just to move cars to and from our facility!

AlexH · 10-14-2010, 03:53 PM

Mine is an '03 base and wonder if it too has a potential problem with RMS. Also has Porsche made a recall on this issue or any class action filed to have Porsche rectify a major issue?

Overdrive · 10-14-2010, 04:13 PM

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Originally Posted by AlexH

Mine is an '03 base and wonder if it too has a potential problem with RMS. Also has Porsche made a recall on this issue or any class action filed to have Porsche rectify a major issue?

AlexH, the short answer to your second question is simply No.
Porsche is pretty much not going to cover anything having to do with this unless the car is still under warranty...which is why it's an especially big problem...and also why there's Jake Raby with solutions.

Jake Raby · 10-14-2010, 04:22 PM

A Judge won't keep your engine from failing.. sorry..

I drove Pat's Boxster home tonight.. 43 miles with no issues at all. After the first 10 miles with the new AOS fitted the smoke had completely cleared up and there were no noises or issues at all.

We'll re-test for compression and leak down tomorrow to see if the numbers are more consistent after run time to burn all the oil out of the intake/cylinders and etc.

This was just a bad AOS, but it could have been much, much worse.

Banana S · 10-14-2010, 04:55 PM

Just wanted to chime in here and point out, for anybody that might have missed it, just how easy it would have been for Jake to come back this afternoon and post, "Yep, just as I expected, the IMS blew, Pat needs a new engine altogether, might as well let me do it while it's in my shop already." No pictures, no step-by-step analysis, and we'd all have simply nodded and said yep, that's the way it goes.

You're a class act, Jake. When I start getting hungry for a little more power than my 3.2L can churn out, I'll be taking another trip to Georgia.

Dragonwind · 10-14-2010, 06:54 PM

This thread has to be one of the best ones I have ever read here. Thank you Jake for providing such a play by play analysis of the diagnosis and repair.

Chris

Gilles · 10-15-2010, 10:56 AM

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Originally Posted by Jake Raby

We'll re-test for compression and leak down tomorrow to see if the numbers are more consistent after run time to burn all the oil out of the intake/cylinders and etc.

Jake, any news regarding the compression and leak down test.?
BTW, thanks for a great thread..!

02box · 10-15-2010, 12:34 PM

Hello all, I just chatted with Jake and the car is running well with the new AOS. I think he's put 80 miles on it since the fix. I'm thankful that it wasn't the catostrphic failure I thought it was. I have opted to go ahead with the retro fitted IMS bearing which he will do next week. he said everything looks good and even at 86,000 mi. the engine seems strong. I could just drive it this way but I'll feel better having the new bearing. I put 35,000 mi. on a car every year so I'm not sure I want to put that many miles the boxster so I may put up for sale when I get it back. I'll feel better selling it with the now AOS and retrofitted bearing. I wish I would have found a car for sale that already had it done.
Jake is a pro and the most helpful and communicative person I have ever dealt with. constant updates. we are all lucky to have such a guy involved with these cars. I feel the the cost of all this has also been more than fair.
I'm sure he will keep the thread running thru the IMS bearing update. I too am looking forward to that. this has been a very positive experience in light of the deressing nature of the breakdown. I'm gone for the weekend but will pick the thread up monday when I get back. motor on dudes and dudettes

Pat (O2BOX)

ltusler · 10-21-2010, 12:13 PM

Guys just another data point on the Raby quality, I just finished my first full season with the FSI 3.8 fully massaged engine in my track only 996. About 2k track only miles between Brainerd International and Road America this summer. The engine performed flawlessly. No runs, drips, or errors. I just wish the driver was as good. 2 oil changes so far and no metal or sealant goobers to speak of.

Thanks Jake!
Lon

jmatta · 10-21-2010, 12:36 PM

Jake, must the sump plate be removed to spot bearing gasket material or will it show up in the oil filter, as well? I'm going to change my oil in the next week or so (car is ready to be put away for Chicago winter soon) and thought I may be a bit proactive on looking for trouble signs...I'm thinking of having the bearing changed by next spring before driving season, just as a precaution.

Jake Raby · 10-21-2010, 05:19 PM

Lon, nice of you to drop in.. That beast was a challenge to build, but its been pure satisfaction for both of us!

jmatta,
Yes, removing the sump plate is a necessary evil.. The design of the area around the drain plug keeps debris in the sump during an oil service.. Pull that sucker and inspect!

Pat's Boxster is now 100% completed and has even passed the chassis dyno. I'll be test driving it over the weekend to ensure it has no leaks, noises or etc before Pat comes to pick it up on Tuesday!

I'll post some pics Monday.. Tomorrow is a holiday for us here.

Lobo1186 · 10-21-2010, 07:46 PM

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Originally Posted by ltusler

Guys just another data point on the Raby quality, I just finished my first full season with the FSI 3.8 fully massaged engine in my track only 996. About 2k track only miles between Brainerd International and Road America this summer. The engine performed flawlessly. No runs, drips, or errors. I just wish the driver was as good. 2 oil changes so far and no metal or sealant goobers to speak of.

Thanks Jake!
Lon

how much power does that bad boy put down?