Has anyone compared BMW M Roadster to the Boxster S? - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Push · 04-04-2005, 09:02 PM

I searched the forum and didn't find anything.

Did anyone compare these two cars before choosing their Boxster?

I "think" I have it narrowed down between the 2001+ Boxster S and the 2001+ BMW M Roadster.

I'm looking for great handling, good preformance and reliablity.
I talked with a few members here a while ago and they set me straight on the Boxster S, so I know the issues it had in the past and the little quirks it still has. I also know about the bigger motor, brakes etc....

Also if you have owned an M Roadster I would like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks again for your time.

Neil

phrankandbeanz · 04-04-2005, 10:55 PM

I have not owned a M roadster, however I was in the same predicament as you. When I stumbled across the M roadster, I was completely stunned by the beauty of the interior and the quad exhaust pipes were impressive. The power of that car was also very impressive and the torque was greater then the Boxster. I have heard problems here and there with the s52 pre 2000 engines. Ican't quite remember what right now because I was in the market about a year ago.

I now own a 2004 boxster 2.7L and the handling of my boxster is a lot more confident then the M. Although I might not have the torque, I feel my car is a lot more balanced. The interior of my porsche is inferior to that BMW. But in the end, nothing will give oyu the same driving experience as the porsche.

Just my $.02

Rowag · 04-04-2005, 11:05 PM

I'm a multiple-time BMW owner and self-proclaimed pseudo-expert, trying to get into the Boxster realm.

The M roadster is an awesome, awesome car, but the key here is the chassis it's based on - the not-so-modern Z3. Even when "M-ized", it's got a bit more flex and isn't quite as sure-footed as a Boxster. It is, however, rear-wheel drive, which you may or may not prefer over the Boxster's mid-engine setup. And a BMW inline 6 (especially an M motor) is a glorious thing to experience.

The M coupe, on the other hand, is substantially more rigid and will give you top-notch performance. But it's not a roadster and I personally think it's butt-ugly.

The Z4 is considered to be on-par with the Boxster with regards to handling, and having driven one on multiple occasions I can say it is an absolute blast of a car to drive. The upcoming M version of that car will probably be disgustingly high-performance.

As far as reliability goes - BMW isn't king of the hill. They aren't bad (their powertrains are particularly strong), but all the electronics tend to go over time. Motors, switches, sensors, etc.

The one thing BMW has done that keeps me coming back to them is balance everyday drivability with performance, safety and incredible value. While many cars are a "9" in some things and a "2" in others, BMWs are typically "8"-"9" in *everything*. You can switch from a subtle, smooth ride to tail-out-happy-fun-times with a flick of a wrist and blip on the throttle.

Adam · 04-05-2005, 06:52 AM

I got into a 02 M-Roadster before I purchased my "S." I picked the an 03 S as you can see. The engine is the real selling point of that car. I believe it's called the S54 and it has 315 hp and an 8k rpm redline. That engine is simply unmatched by anything else in the roadster market. It pulls very hard all the way from 3k-8krpm. The boxster S while strong is simply outmatched in the power dep. The M interior is also nicer albeit a bit cramped and the driving position subpar compared to the Porsche. Nothing else about the M impressed me at all. The trunk is the same size as the rear truck in the boxster, so the trunk space is half of the what the boxster offers. The 5 speed shifter on the M I drove felt long and rough. It was very dissapointing. The handling of the car while superior to your average car, can't hold a candle to the response, feedback, balance, and overall grip of the boxster S. The boxster S brakes are beefier and offer better feedback through the pedal as well. The model I looked at didn't have a power top or Xenon lights either. I'm not even sure if those things are even offered as an option for the M, but I'm leaning torwards no. In summation, the M is clearly superior to the S in the power dep...but behind in everything else comapared to the S. The S seems to have more than enough power for most peoples needs and it sounds a heck of alot better in the proccess as well. I'm a power junkie, but I still echewed the M for the S simply because the Porsche is so good.

Perfectlap · 04-05-2005, 07:02 AM

Buy a Boxster S.
This is a car that should have cost the public $80,000. At least that's what the engineers and designers were told after they presented their plans. By farming out the assembly of the car to Finland and Austria(I believe) and implementing new assembly line procedures from Japanese efficiency experts they were able to dramatically lower the cost.
A second hand Boxster S is allot of punch for the buck. Both in performance and reliability. Try to buy as new a boxster S as you can with as low mileage as possible. I found a 2000 S with only 10,000 miles and jumped on it. Best decision I ever made. This car has exceeded all expectations.

IMHO There's something extra that Porsche has that BMW and Mercs just don't have.

Brucelee · 04-05-2005, 07:12 AM

You simply have to drive the cars, as they are very very different. No amount of feedback will substitute for this experience.

And they are both great cars.

Good luck!

Adam · 04-05-2005, 07:52 AM

All I can say is Porsche...there is no substitute.

Lux · 04-05-2005, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowag

The Z4 is considered to be on-par with the Boxster with regards to handling, and having driven one on multiple occasions I can say it is an absolute blast of a car to drive. The upcoming M version of that car will probably be disgustingly high-performance.

Hell no. Not even close. The only people that think that are delusional Z4 owners. The Z4 handles ok but lacks the "right now" feel of the Boxster. The upcoming MZ4 is still rumor at best. Those same "spy pics" have been floating around forever. Right now, there is upwards of $10K off in incentives on the Z4. Why would BMW come out with an even more expensive version of a lousy selling car?

As to the original question, the only thing the MZ3 has going for it is straight line speed. The S52 motor is about as quick as a 986 S and the S54 motor is a lot quicker with it's 320hp.

However, it handles like ****************. The suspension is from the 2nd previous generation (E30) 3 series. Try taking some bumpy corners at speed and see what happens. That alone should make the Z3 a non-contender.

And lastly, the Z3 is fugly. Seriously. It looks like crap compared to the Boxster. Why is this even a comparison? What exactly is better on the Z3???

-

Perfectlap · 04-05-2005, 09:48 AM

yes I have seen some very modified Z3's (Dinan I think) at Autocross events and even those seem to sway like battleships. Along comes a BoxsterS and its sticking at all four corners like an open wheeler. The Z4 corners allot better than the Z3 (from a spectators point of view) but the demmand and resale isn't looking promising. I'm a fan of the styling of both paticularly the Z4 and M Coupe, very forward looking.
But not in the Boxster handling league. I doubt you'll find a better car for hand over hand steering than a Boxster which you really really really notice right away when you get out your Boxster and into another sportscar. Excellent for clipping those corner apexes.

Push · 04-05-2005, 10:27 PM

Well after takling to more owners of Boxster S's I'm leaning that way.

I can't really get an answer about that rear suspension "spookyness" on the Roadster and I won't want to, in a car I buy. Even BMW owners say the Boxster "S" has the upper hand in the control department. I like the increased power from the BMW and I think the BMW wins in the aggressive looks department while the Porsche looks great in a much more classy, refined way.

I guess it comes down to reliability and price. Is the Porsche more rock solid than the BMW and is the edge in handling and braking worth the extra 5k-7k {depending on the Coupe or Roadster}.

I'm also in Canada so add 20% to all prices. :ah:

Brucelee · 04-06-2005, 05:49 AM

"I guess it comes down to reliability and price. Is the Porsche more rock solid than the BMW and is the edge in handling and braking worth the extra 5k-7k {depending on the Coupe or Roadster}."

As someone who deals in both BMW and Porsche, I would not call either marque "rock solid" if you are talking reliability. You would have to hand that title to Toyota or Honda for sure.

Having said that, both the M and the Box will hold up very nicely IF TAKEN CARE OF! If you intend to race on or off track weekly, expect to have a repair budget similar to racing teams.

Rowag · 04-06-2005, 05:10 PM

Actually, the front of the suspension on the Z3 is based off of the E36 (prior-gen 3 series), while the rear is from the E30 for space consumption reasons (the E36 rear setup would have resulted in the Z3 having a prohibitively-small trunk).

I agree, though - bumpy corners tend to upset the rear end a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

However, it handles like ****************. The suspension is from the 2nd previous generation (E30) 3 series. Try taking some bumpy corners at speed and see what happens. That alone should make the Z3 a non-contender.
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Lux · 04-06-2005, 05:35 PM

An M3 cab is the worst of all worlds. It's a pig at what?...3800 lbs for the E46 and 3500 lbs for the E36? Handling will suffer as well as straight line speed.

The Boxster with its 2 trunks is actually damn practical.

If I had to pick a BMW roadster, I'd go with the Z4 before even the MZ3. At least the Z4's chassis is up to the task of being a roadster. The Z3 is a little loosey goosey.

Rowag,
You are correct on the suspension. Not that the E36 rear was that great. I've blown out more shock mounts and lower control arm bushings than the law allows. It was great when everything worked though.

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Adam · 04-06-2005, 06:54 PM

I agree with what you said about the M3 cabbie being a pig. It's good for boulavard cruising and that's about it. The only reason I suggested it was because it didn't sound like Push drove hard enough to realize the benefits of the Boxster...but he cleared that up.

Push · 04-06-2005, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowag

I'm a multiple-time BMW owner and self-proclaimed pseudo-expert, trying to get into the Boxster realm.

The M roadster is an awesome, awesome car, but the key here is the chassis it's based on - the not-so-modern Z3. Even when "M-ized", it's got a bit more flex and isn't quite as sure-footed as a Boxster. It is, however, rear-wheel drive, which you may or may not prefer over the Boxster's mid-engine setup. And a BMW inline 6 (especially an M motor) is a glorious thing to experience.

The M coupe, on the other hand, is substantially more rigid and will give you top-notch performance. But it's not a roadster and I personally think it's butt-ugly.

The Z4 is considered to be on-par with the Boxster with regards to handling, and having driven one on multiple occasions I can say it is an absolute blast of a car to drive. The upcoming M version of that car will probably be disgustingly high-performance.

As far as reliability goes - BMW isn't king of the hill. They aren't bad (their powertrains are particularly strong), but all the electronics tend to go over time. Motors, switches, sensors, etc.

The one thing BMW has done that keeps me coming back to them is balance everyday drivability with performance, safety and incredible value. While many cars are a "9" in some things and a "2" in others, BMWs are typically "8"-"9" in *everything*. You can switch from a subtle, smooth ride to tail-out-happy-fun-times with a flick of a wrist and blip on the throttle.

Which one would you choose?

Perfectlap · 04-06-2005, 08:18 AM

Have you driven both yet?
(make sure you drive the S!)

I think once you take a quick turn in the BoxsterS the decision will be an easy one.
I don't consider 'drag racing' to be real driving. Any car can go fast in a straight line. But once you turn that wheel you see what that sports car is made of.

Push · 04-06-2005, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Have you driven both yet?
(make sure you drive the S!)

I think once you take a quick turn in the BoxsterS the decision will be an easy one.
I don't consider 'drag racing' to be real driving. Any car can go fast in a straight line. But once you turn that wheel you see what that sports car is made of.

No, There aren't any listed for sale in my province, that's why I have been trying to narrow down my search so much. And I will make sure I drive the car that I will eventually buy and not a model that's "similar" to it.

As for drag racing, it's not what I'm into but more power is still more power. Staying in gear for short bursts of fun or just getting up to speed quicker is always good. How the car handles is more important than hp numbers, still.

Perfectlap · 04-06-2005, 10:33 AM

true power is nice.
BUT.....
as many many have experienced and can attest the 'power game' is an unending one. Eventually you get used to whatever you have at your fingertips and want more. Add some headers, more power, get used to it, get bored. A never ending list of modifications and you get used to it all.

Personally I think once you achieve a a very good power to weight ratio as the BoxsterS comes stock you are good to go.
250 hp per 2.5 tons of curb weight seems to be the magic range when a sports car seems to come "alive".

Now the handling of the boxster and the throttle response, torque delivery is something you NEVER get used to. Well at least I don't, Unless you spend a heck of allot time in the swiss alps doing time trials, I think you might agree that the Boxster's handling is world class.
Excellence Magazine recently had a Porsche round up of the greatest Porsche Roadsters and Targas and one contributor said "The balance and handling of the Carrera GT($700,000) and the BoxsterS ($60,000) are the best Porsche has on offer today".

Rowag · 04-06-2005, 05:31 PM

If I was buying, I'd go with the Boxster S. It's got plenty of power for me, and I love incredible-handling cars.

You may want to try a used M3 convertible, as well. Though as Lux pointed out, the steering feel in the E46 (the current chassis) M3 is horrible. But there's LOTS of power there and even though the steering rack is crap there are still some redeeming factors in the handling department.

I'm not certain if a lease would be a consideration, but if it is and you could use the practicality of 4 seats you may want to look into a 330ci convertible with the Performance Package (code named "ZHP"). That package includes a short shifter, different suspension setup, different cams/intake/exhaust, a shorter final drive, alcantara seats, alcantara steering wheel (leather now on later '05s but you can get it swapped), different exterior trim (bumpers, side flares), and different wheels. The car's fairly quick (235hp, 0-60 in 5.6, qtr mile low 14's @ 98mph), and handling is fantastic. There were some incredible lease specials for the past few months on the 330ci coupes as BMW needed to keep cash flow up for the launch of the new 3-series sedans this year. There might be similar deals on convertibles.

If you don't have a need/use for the 4 seats, though, buy the S or the M-roadster and enjoy. I agree with you on the "you always want more power" thing. That's why I'd buy the Boxster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Push

Which one would you choose?

clubhead · 04-07-2005, 07:41 AM

My previous car was a Euro 321bhp M Coupe, slighly different from the 240bhp ones in the US. Until the S54 engine came along that is

Mine has the S50 engine. I had it for 3.5 years and was my only daily transport. I'm now driving a Boxster S.

In terms of power, it is just awesome. Of course, I had a couple of usual things done to it like SuperSprint exhaust, Gruppe M carbon intake kit, UUC short shifter, adjustable camber/caster kit, etc. The sound of the engine above 5,000rpm is just too awesome to describe. The power is stunning on that car in a straight line. I've outrun a stock Evo on the track straights and heavily modified Nissan S15s. The gearshift is short, precise and sweet contrary to what some mentioned here. Fuel consumption is very good for such a powerful engine... bet 7.5-8.5km/l

The brakes on the M Coupe sucks big time. Double sliding pistons up front and single sliding pistons in the rear. Fades big time on the track even with my upgraded Tarox floating rotors.

The downside is really the trailing arm rear suspension that was inherited from the E30. This suspension is very prone to camber changes during suspension travel. Hence, the reason for sudden snap oversteer during corners. It did scare the daylights out of me a couple of times on the track..... and thank goodness it only happened on the track for me. A few M Coupes/Roadsters have been totalled this way on public roads, especially on roundabouts in UK.

Interior wise, I think it's comparable to the Boxster. But my Boxster S came with full carbon interior which I thought looked much better than the M Coupe's. It has additional things like oil temp gauge that is lacking on the Boxster.

After owning my Boxster for 6 months now, I think the Boxster wins hands down for steering feel, brakes and suspension. The M coupe wins in terms of straight line power. That power is useless in corners because of the suspension. Power out too early and you'll be looking the other way on the track at on-coming traffic.

The power in the Boxster is still lacking in my opinion. You just can't beat the rush of straight line acceleration of the M Coupe or the Evolution (my car before the M Coupe). And the tiptronic doesn't help

Hope this has been helpful

One last note, the body of the M Coupe, though supposedly much more rigid than the M Roadster is still less rigid than the Boxster. Lots of creaks and groans as you feel the chassis flexing.