high water temp?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Sputter

Both you and I posed similar questions.
If I understood it correctly, since the t-stat opens sooner (lower temp) and the system is cooling earlier then the temp shouldn't reach as high as a later (higher temp) opening t-stat.
But,,
where the wheels fall off for me is once both t-stats are fully open then everything is equal. It seems to me it has to be in the cycling to make a meaningfull difference.

As for any real benefits in the reduction of 15 degrees I don't think anyone has said.

OK, as I have been one of the posters that has actually used and tested the LN 160 degree stat, let me sum up what we have seen:

1. Lowering the temperature of the coolant appears to have no negative effects (check engine lights, lack of heat, etc.).

2. The M96 is running a lot hotter than you think it is with the OEM stat, mostly due the inaccuracy of the factory gauge.

3. Oil life and performance are closely correlated to heat exposure, the hotter it gets, the faster its performance (and life expectancy) falls off. That, plus the fact that the number one function of oil is heat transfer, not lubricity, allowing the engine oil to get too hot is a recipe for problems. This is why one of the first “performance mods” we suggest for non S cars is to swap out the oil cooler for the S unit which is nearly twice the size.

4. The factory OEM 186 degree stat starts to open (in a pot of water) at 185-189 degrees; it does not fully open until well over 200 degrees.

5. The LN 160 degree stat (in the same test) starts to open at 161-162 and is fully open at about 168 - 170 degrees.

6. Around town and open road tests of a 160 stat equipped 2.7 base car on a 72-75 F day consistently showed lower coolant temps between the high 160’s and low 170’s. Before the swap, the same car showed running temps in the 193 – 210 range under similar conditions. All “real time” test data was captured via the OBD II port.

7. Visually, the OEM and the LN stats appear identical, other than the temp rating markings.

8. I see no reason to believe that “cycling” of the thermostat comes into play at anything other than cold ambient temps. Once the engine, its oil and coolant, are up to temp (regardless of what temp that is), it takes a lot of heat transfer to pull it back down; that is why it takes a bit of driving after being stuck in traffic before the car cools to its normal steady state. So, unless the ambient air is below say 40 degrees F, cycling of the stat does not occur to any great level.

9. Does it increase performance? The correct answer would be “Damned if I know.” We have heard of slight gas milage increases after doing this, but currently have not data to confirm or deny that. Should it increase oil and engine life expectancy? My response would be “Definitely.” Cooling the engine, and in particular the oil, is “a good thing”…………

Feel free to continue to debate its value, but I think from what we have seen there are real benefits from a relatively simple “once and done” parts swap.

[jmatta]

All the convincing I need...just placed my order.

[jhandy]

Well I figured someone though of it before me.

http://www.elephantracing.com/oilhandling/fans.htm

That site has aftermarket oil cooler fans to addon to your spec 911.

Anyway, would some like this be a benift? I bet it would.




How do you take the oil out of the loop and install a seperate oil cooler?

Thanks

[cas951]

Everyone covered most of the items you need to check. If the Engine temp is constantly high and you've already checked that the airflow to the radiator is not clogged these are your other possibilities.

1. Thermostat can operate normally but they can be sticky and open partially. This will cause your engine temps to be higher than normal since the flow of coolant is limited.

2. I have not replaced a water pump on a Boxster but if the water pump material is similar to BMW's and Vw's this could be at fault. BMW and VW waterpump uses a hard rubber compound impellers. These wear out overtime and can no longer push the required volume of coolant to cool the engine and cause your temp to be higher than normal. VW had a recall on their waterpump due to this and BMW's require to change at 50k.

Inspecting either of these route will require you to get into the engine compartment and also drain the coolant. Probably a good time to replace both.

I have seen both BMW and VW pumps when they failed. The impeller was completely rounded

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by jhandy

Well I figured someone though of it before me.

http://www.elephantracing.com/oilhandling/fans.htm

That site has aftermarket oil cooler fans to addon to your spec 911.

Anyway, would some like this be a benift? I bet it would.




How do you take the oil out of the loop and install a seperate oil cooler?

Thanks

These will not work for a Boxster. The oil cooler on the M96 is an oil/water design mounted under the rear driver's side of the intake manifold. It does not depend upon air flow for cooling. To convert it to air/oil cooling, you would need the LN oil filter adpaptor, then run lines to the front of the car and add the heat exchanger. You will also need a thermostatic flow control valve to prevent the air/oil unit from over cooling the oil (yes, that is an acutal problem).

In reality, the OEM M96 oil cooler design on the S model is pretty good and also acts as an oil warmer in colder weather to get the oil up to proper temps quickly. Much simpler and more compact than going air/oil............

[jhandy]

JPF.
that is true. look on the top drivers side of the motor, There is a oil heat sink. looks like a square compact radiator.

part number 996-107-025-57-OEM

if a fan was placed on this part, it would push more air through the fins and cool the oil more.??.
I am going to check the front, and the t-stat, but as an addon this is simple, and if it would cause lower oil temps, that would save the life of the motor, at least from my understanding.
just drove to lunch, and the car went to 198 and stayed there, so i guess something is not right.
I am checking real time temps via the port under the dash.

Did we ever establish what the "normal" temp should be?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by jhandy

JPF.
that is true. look on the top drivers side of the motor, There is a oil heat sink. looks like a square compact radiator.

part number 996-107-025-57-OEM

if a fan was placed on this part, it would push more air through the fins and cool the oil more.??.
I am going to check the front, and the t-stat, but as an addon this is simple, and if it would cause lower oil temps, that would save the life of the motor, at least from my understanding.
just drove to lunch, and the car went to 198 and stayed there, so i guess something is not right.
I am checking real time temps via the port under the dash.

Did we ever establish what the "normal" temp should be?

When you actually see one of these up close, you will understand a bit more. The exchanger is a "laminar" design, kind of like a loaf of bread on end, where the odd numbered slices have coolant flowing thru them in one direction, and the even slices have oil in them going the other way. There are no air passage ways like a radiator has; it is a solid object, so putting a fan on it will gain you nothing as the heat exchange takes place at the "slice-to-slice" interfaces.............

Have you verified that your front radiators are clear? And I don't mean just looking at them thru the grills; I mean pulling the front cover off and looking between the A/C exchangers and the radiators? You might be surprised at the junk that collects in there and causes cooling issues......we have found everything from a ton of foliage to dead birds inside these systems.



Here's a good "backyard DIY link: http://www.realtime.net/~rentner/Porsche/Radiator/Radiator.html

[JFP in PA]

Here's a picture of the exchanger to help you understand my post:

[cnavarro]

I would be the first to say not to put a front mounted oil cooler using our spin on oil filter adapter. Although the engine is "dry sump", I treat it like a wet sump engine and I don't think the pump is up to the task of pushing the oil to the front of the car and back again. Putting on the S oil cooler is a very smart idea on a non-S car. Laminar flow oil coolers (heat exchangers) like this are very efficient, so I honestly believe that it is plenty.

The only adapter I use with the spin-on oil filter adapter is an accusump single-port input adapter to put an accusump on the engine for the track, coupled with a shorter Napa Gold 1081 stubby oil filter to maintain ground clearance.

My wife's W8 passat uses the same laminar flow oil to water cooler as the S, which is the same as the one used on the side of the tiptronic transmission. It's widely shared among many models.

I've noticed that in traffic that some of the added heat is for sure from the tiptronic slipping the torque converter (versus putting it in N while stopped), so automatic cars for sure would benefit from a low temp thermostat even more since there is more heat being pumped in and getting full coolant flow earlier is a great thing.

[Jaxonalden]

Jhandy,

Read my post (#6), now please do the tests and post the results. You will find your problem. Fix it before it fixes you. might want to read this post also, http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20505 .

Regarding this statement from JFP in PA about installing a 160 degree thermostat;

"9. Does it increase performance? The correct answer would be “Damned if I know.” We have heard of slight gas mileage increases after doing this, but currently have not data to confirm or deny that. Should it increase oil and engine life expectancy? My response would be “Definitely.” Cooling the engine, and in particular the oil, is “a good thing”…………"

If that were true don't you think the mechanical engineers at Porsche would know this and install a 160 thermostat at the factory? They don't because for the engine to be "efficient" it needs to run at the OEM spec temp. I think Porsche has a little more knowledge in this field (almost 80 years) than most.

You have a 7 year old car with 62k on the clock, your problem is ether dirty radiators or your pump is going tits up.