How many Porsche owners experience "Customer no-service" at their dealership?

[bamaboxster]

2 things I want to chime back in on.

First, will all due respect and condolences to the Tom Williams family for their loss of Tom Williams (founder of the Tom Williams Automobile "Gallery") to a bout with cancer. He was 78.

I drove by the Tom Williams dealerships tonight on the way home from college to check one thing out. What I was looking for was the falg pole at the end of the row connecting all of the dealers in this "subdivision". The flag, which is right against highway 459 for everyone to see, was not at half staff. I don't know what the protocol is on lowering flags for specific reasons, but I feel at least someone in one of the 7 dealerships Tom Williams put on the ground, would have thought of it.

Unfortunately, I feel this oversight is metaphoric for the way the upper management (Sonic Corporation) is so disconnected from their dealers, and how the dealers are disconnected from their customers.

Someone should have the respect to lower the flag to half staff at this auto dealer megaplex bearing Tom's name.



Second,

As for buying a new car cash, from my experience, what car you buy may make a difference.

For example; I bought my 2003 Infiniti G35 6 speed Sedan about halfway through the model year. The car stickered at $34,000 loaded, I paid $31,000 cash for it.

I drove the car 13 months, put 27,000 miles on it, traded it for the Boxster.

With the serious amount of miles I put on it in a year and it being a manual transmission on a 4 door sedan, I got $27,300 actual cash for it. I took less than a $4000 hit. This is not too unusual for 6MT owners, but unusual for the typical car market.

With that said, the G35 has held on to its resale value quite well and is one of the reasons I went back to another G35.

Another new one; In 1995, I bought the first 96 M-Edition Miata (Merlot color) which stickered for $24,000 and change. I bought it for $23,200 Sold the car 2 years later in pristine condition with 20K miles on it just under $18,000.

On the other hand, to defend the used car purchase (the one I should have kept); I bought a 1998 VW Jetta GLS TDI 5 speed, the Turbo Direct Injection diesel, with 115k miles on it for $5,000 even 4 years ago. This car was as clean as a new car, no wear showing on it any where. it was still getting 52MPG on the highway with 140K miles on it. Zero issues with this car. Only if everyone took care of thier cars like me and the previous owner of this Jetta. I put 24k miles on it, sold it a year and a half later to another TDI enthusiast for the same $5000 I initially paid for it. Jetta III TDIs and Golf TDIs and like cars in similar or less condition are still getting around the same 5 grand. With that kind of gas mileage, the savings covered the insurance and tag.

I did almost as well on my 1990 Audi 200 Turbo Quattro 5 Speed and my 1986 Commemorative Edition Audi Coupe GT. A little more maintenance cost in involved when you drive an old Audi.

These were cars that are sought after models and have a loyal or cult-like following. The rarer and more special the car, the better it will hang on to its resale, but only within the circle of like enthusiasts.

Look at the market on the Toyota Prius, the hybrid. It is extremely difficult to get this car anywhere in the country and the demand for them is high. People are still getting near what they paid for the first generation Prius, if they happen to give them up, and that is rare.

In comparison, yes my babied 04 Boxster will be a real bargain for someone looking for a used one with warranty still left on it for $34,000 as mentioned in the post above. Its will be a great deal for someone. I am the one that took the $12,000 hit in 5 months on the Boxster. This was the only new car I bought that had such a dramatic initial depreciation rate. I'm quite sure my future 997 will also.

I don't believe in strapping yourself down to a new car if you can barely make the payments and not saving money for a rainy day, just to have driveway jewelry.

I agree, its smarter to buy a car a few years old which is well taken care of in cash if possible. I never finance the full amount of the purchase price, nor do I max out the term for 5 years if I finance. I have the funds to pay for a new car in full and I have. I'm 35, my house is almost paid for (<3 years to go), I live within my means, I'm saving and investing money, but enjoying life at the same time.

Cars are my life long passion and its the only thing I spend money on. They're not investments, unless its a special vintage, but a careful purchase can be kinder to the wallet.

Dave

[RandallNeighbour]

Yellowjacket, spreadsheets do indeed changed one's attitude and feelings about financed purchases, but I must say that paying cash for any depreciating item is what any CPA or CFP would tell you or me if asked.

Add one more thing into the mix of this conversation: Buying cars on credit and paying interest assumes three important things that simply cannot be assumed in my mind at my ripe old age of 42:

1. One's annual income level will remain the same and/or increase over time.

We can work hard to keep our jobs and make more money, but alas, excellent employees lose their jobs every day! Finding another can often take months or longer. If his or her car is paid for, it's one less thing they'll have to be concerned about losing should their savings run dry.

2. One's health, and the health of his or her family will remain excellent during the duration of the loan period.

We can eat lots of fruits and veggies, lay off the red meat, jog three miles each morning and still contract cancer and see our life savings wiped out due to the crappy insurance we are all forced to endure in the USA. Few employers have excellent health coverage any more and the overage payments for a catastrophic illness in one's family can easily exceed $50k. Being out of car debt would go a long way toward making those medical payments.

3. One's current investments will not tank and be worth far more in the years to come.

The financial climate has changed. Modest gains can be had if invested wisely, but truth be told, the old addage of not counting ones' chickens until they're hatched is still true.

By no means am I trying to be arguementative, but losing sleep, developing ulcers, arguing with one's spouse over spent-money issues because the spreadsheets and possible interest gained did not pan out, and assumes one will follow through and invest what has been borrowed to fulfill the scenario you've laid out.

The interest charged on the loan, however, is guaranteed to be charged to the payee.

[Brucelee]

Financially, one can take both sides to the debt/leverage argument and feel right. To me, if one HAS the cash, the emotion may take over.

To wit, I have no debt at all and it feels wonderful. I could borrow a ton of money and use it to leverage any number of things. Or, use it to invest in other things.

I don't do that.

To me, it feels better than what the spreadsheet might tell me.

At this stage of my life, that is more important to me that being "right."

[YellowJacket]

I can certainly understand what some of you are saying regarding the decision to finance using debt or using cash out of pocket. It probably also depends partly on what stage of life you are in. Right now, I'm young and have room to make a little bit more risky financial decisions than someone who is twice my age. Furthermore, if I make a mistake, I don't have a family of four to worry about supporting. So it makes more sense for me to use my money for other purposes than paying cash for my car. That being said, I can definitely see where it makes more sense for some of you to have the piece of mind that comes with something "guaranteed" (i.e. it is guaranteed that if you pay off your car, nothing will happen to cause you to lose more money on the car than issues related to repairs, depreciation, etc.).

Sorry if I came off a bit too sure of my ways earlier!

[RandallNeighbour]

Yellowjacket, I love the banter, and I don't get riled up about it at all! Keep it coming. That's how I seem to learn from others... lots of communication of all kinds.

Just save a lot of money and stay out of debt in your youth! That way, you can relax as you age and not worry about money... and you can enjoy the miracle of compounded interest, which gets really miraculous in those last years!

[bamaboxster]

Randallneighbor,

Well spoken

Dave

[Perfectlap]

NOT living with debt certainly lowers your stress level. But when you realize that $30,000 cash diversely invested in real estate, stocks, bonds will be exponentionally greater thirty years from now you have to know that the elusive "debt free good feeling" is a luxury in itself! You are leaving allot of retirement money on the table by putting the cash in another man's pocket and driving home with a smile. One very expensive smile really.
The number one thing financial advisors preach is the benefits of time. every year that you tie up cash in non-appreciating investments, is that much more cash you have to kick in to get the same return in thirty years. They also preach that even if you are in your 40's you should never think its too late to invest, people are living longer and the world is getting more expensive.

My father used to always say "a guy who makes $100,000 goes out and spends half his income on a car isn't very wealthy" He has never paid more than $5,000 for a car, EVER... even though he was more than able to buy a really nice car.

[Perfectlap]

"That way, you can relax as you age and not worry about money... !"

I don't think I have ever in my life met a guy over 30 who didn't worry about money. Well there was that one single guy who ate allot of canned tuna fish.

lol i am 25 and i wanna live a little and not bother about investing.... if the bible and prophecy is correct then aint the world going to end in march 2006? lol who knows... i would much rather spend and enjoy today or die tomorrow rich.