What's Your Engine Temp?

[Jaxonalden]

Same song, different verse. For as long as I've been a mechanic the term "engine temperature" refers to the coolant temperature. Because it's gives an overall temp reading of the engine. Read what the coolant temp gauge is called on any car, it doesn't say Coolant Temp it says Eng Temp.

I'm no an idiot to think the engine oil, combustion cylinder temp and exhaust gas (for that matter) is the same temp as the coolant. As I said in my post "The coolant system maintains the engine at a set temperature by the OEM and my point is that Porsche runs their engines cooler than any other manufacture that I know."

Quickurt,

I do not agree with you when you say "The Europeans understand the purpose of the suspension system is to keep the tires in as close to perfect position and loading at all times, to maintain near perfect adhesion between the tires and pavement. Ride comfort is compromised in favor of control.
American manufactures understand the purpose of the suspension system is to give the car as smooth a ride as possible over any type of pavement surface. Control is compromised in favor of ride comfort."

As explained to me by a German in Germany in simple terms as follows;

German cars are built to withstand the Autobahn. The speed, the curves and stopping. Hence the power from Porsche, Audi, BMW and Mercedes. All these cars are built for high speeds, maintaining high speeds and being safe at those speeds.

American car manufactures don't have to build their production cars to those standards. Max speed in this country is 75mph and that's their benchmark and cars are built to that. As a quick example just look at the oil capacity on American cars, 5 quarts. Why do you think our Boxsters have 9 quarts? It's not because the engine has that much more to lube, it's because when running at sustained high speeds for a long time the oil needs to have the ability cool before being sent back around the engine to cool and lube. You think race cars have 5 quarts in their sumps?

So to sum it up, European cars are built stronger because of the Autobahn, American cars are not. I won't get into the fact that there are cry baby Americans that complain about a stiff ride (and won't buy) without understanding the reason for that ride.

[Quickurt]

Jaxonalden,
Okay, settle down.
I don't remember anyone calling anyone anything.
Same song, different verse was a great description for both the coolant discussion and the suspension one. You're right, the autobahn and higher speeds are why the europeans place tire contact and control as a higher priority than cushy ride, while the Americans concentrate on cushy ride because they can.
I described their suspension philosophy and you gave the reasons, but I don't see how we disagreed.
Now, let's have a beer!!

[Lil bastard]

Coolant temp may suffice as a euphemism for engine temp in some quarters, but it's an inaccurate one.

And, some gauges may show the symbol of the engine, but to my experience, most relate to coolant or water such as a water droplet with the symbol for degree (°), or a set of wavy lines simulating water waves with a thermometer sticking in it (such as the Boxster), I've even seen H²O on a gauge of one car I owned.

Neither German or European cars were designed for the Autobahn as your german friend stated, and you need to make a distiction between German and other European manufacturers because the genisis of their way of designing cars is very different.

All European cars are 'better built' in part because of their early history. Europe was slow to adopt Henry Ford's model for mass-producing cars - initially, they took a more craftsman like approach and to some extent this lingers today. But it's a mistake to try and lump them all together.

German cars were NOT designed for the Autobahn as this didn't even exist until shortly before the 2nd World War. They were built to meet the specs of both DIN (Deutsches Institut für Normung), formerly NADI (Normenausschuss der deutschen Industrie), a bureau of Industry Standardization such as our ASE, and later TÜV (Technischer Überwachungs-Verein) standards.

Virtually everything that moves on a German road must have a TÜV certification, including most of the parts, such as tires, wheels, even down to the metal alloy from which the Nuts and Bolts are to be made. In most cases the certificate has to be renewed after two years. A pass of the mandatory roadworthiness and smog test is indicated by tamper-proof decals on the license plate. Most modifications (ie aftermarket parts) also need to be approved. The TÜV safety guidelines are among the strictest in the world, and have largely (though not wholly) been adopted by the EU. Now operating at Autobahn speeds may well be factored into the TÜV standards, but it's meeting the standard and receiving certification, not autobahn driving, that manufacturers design and build to.

But, the basis for design of the Volvo was very different and not to market the cars in germany. It was to survive a long-standing cause of major highway crashes and deaths in Sweden, namely Reindeer ! Collisions with Reindeer was a serious problem causing many deaths. Volvos were built with high, flat, reinforced, front ends to prevent merely knocking the animal off it's long legs which resulted in the carcass sliding over the hood and into the windshield, and subsequently, the driver's/passenger's laps. They were designed to throw the animal over the windshield onto the roof (which is also heavily reinforced) and save the occupants lives. In the late 50's and early 60's, when Mercedes started marketing their cars as 'crashworthy' and safe, Volvo jumped on the bandwagon with a 'safety conscious' car they'd actually been producing from the start.

Other country's cars had similar beginnings, but again, not specifically for operating on the Autobahn.

[Lil bastard]

Actually, the reason European cars have better suspensions than American ones is because they have to. It's a matter of terrain.

The automobile came along very late in europe's history, when towns, villages and roads were already well-established. Because of a lack of heavy machinery a thousand years ago, when roads encountered an obstacle - river, hill, mountain, etc., the road builders went around them, creating roads with lots and lots of curves.

In America, the majority of the roads today were not laid when the car came along, and so (along with an availabilty of heavy machinery) the roads were built specifically to accomodate the automobile and so are generally more straight with milder curves. American cars simply didn't need to handle the way european cars did.

[Jaxonalden]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

Actually, the reason European cars have better suspensions than American ones is because they have to. It's a matter of terrain.

The automobile came along very late in europe's history, when towns, villages and roads were already well-established. Because of a lack of heavy machinery a thousand years ago, when roads encountered an obstacle - river, hill, mountain, etc., the road builders went around them, creating roads with lots and lots of curves.

In America, the majority of the roads today were not laid when the car came along, and so (along with an availabilty of heavy machinery) the roads were built specifically to accomodate the automobile and so are generally more straight with milder curves. American cars simply didn't need to handle the way european cars did.

Love the history lesson, thank you. But this is 2008 and Germans aren't hauling' ass in horse and buggy around rutted out mountain passes. The roads in Germany are fantastic and they have no more twisty's that we do in this country. The Autobahn is a work of art and if you think that Porsche's aren't built for the riggers of the Autobahn, Autopista, Autovia and every other high speed road then just go on and keep thinking that. American cars are not built for that.

If you don't believe me just take a trip to Germany and see for yourself, I have (thanks to the military) and will again here real soon. If you do go may I suggest you try something else they're good at, cooking and making beer.

[Lil bastard]

I was raised overseas - primarily in europe and have been to germany many many times. Germany is one of my least favorite european countries. I hate the food and the beer - Belgians make the best european beers followed by the Dutch, then Germany, and probably a 2-way tie for 4th between the French and the British, though I have to admit this is totally subjective.

It is true that in the past 40 years europe has developed their own expressway system similar to our Interstate system, but that accounts for less than 5% of all the roads. The majority, as I've said, are narrow twisty roads, some of which date back to Roman times.

It wasn't so much a history lesson, but in a discussion between american and european cars - History matters !

[speedyturtle]

Hi, I know I'm bumping an old thread but this was the first thing to come up on the Google search and I'm a member here so I figured I'd ask here My 2000 Boxster when warmed up (it's been hot lately since I've purchased it 80+ everyday) but stays in the dead center of the 0 in the 180. Is this normal or running too hot? A lot of threads I've seen say that their cars run right at 180 whereas mine runs right a good bit past that but not quite all the way over to the other dash (like I said, right in the dead center of that 0).

[Crono0001]

It gets really hot here in Arizona (105+ every day), and if I drive the car in stop-go traffic, it tends to climb to the middle of the 0 of the 180 as well. If traffic gets really bad (backed up highway), the temperatures are able to climb even higher than that. As soon as I'm passed the 3/4th mark, I usually pull over and let the car cool.

I've had several mechanics look at it without being able to find any problem. Coolant level is fine, radiators work, water pump works... It works fine at night when it drops to the low 90's.

[BruceH]

Mine stays just right of 180 as well, considering it is 100+ outside, I think it's fine.

[jotoole]

Originally Posted by speedyturtle

Hi, I know I'm bumping an old thread but this was the first thing to come up on the Google search and I'm a member here so I figured I'd ask here My 2000 Boxster when warmed up (it's been hot lately since I've purchased it 80+ everyday) but stays in the dead center of the 0 in the 180. Is this normal or running too hot? A lot of threads I've seen say that their cars run right at 180 whereas mine runs right a good bit past that but not quite all the way over to the other dash (like I said, right in the dead center of that 0).

That's right about where my needle stays year round. I've driven the car below -10 zero F and lately regularly 100+.

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by speedyturtle

Hi, I know I'm bumping an old thread but this was the first thing to come up on the Google search and I'm a member here so I figured I'd ask here My 2000 Boxster when warmed up (it's been hot lately since I've purchased it 80+ everyday) but stays in the dead center of the 0 in the 180. Is this normal or running too hot? A lot of threads I've seen say that their cars run right at 180 whereas mine runs right a good bit past that but not quite all the way over to the other dash (like I said, right in the dead center of that 0).

I wouldn't say you're running too hot. The gauge is not the most accurate device out there, and really the only time you need to be concerned is if you reach or go past the 3rd mark (unlabeled, signifies 215° F), hit the 250° mark, or see a flashing or steady red light above the 250° mark. My car tends to never go back to touching the 180° mark once it passes it, and I find that most of the time I'm somewhere around the 0, either touching one of its edges or sitting in the middle of it. Unless I can get the car out in some clear air (no traffic in front of me) and 50+mph, it'll simply run in that range as I drive around the city or get stuck behind someone on the highway. When I'm cruising on the highway with no one in front and plenty of air getting to the radiators and ducting, the needle can run back down to just slightly to the right of the 180° mark.

I think I can safely assume that your commuting tends to be similar to mine if you're in any sort of urban setting in NJ, so don't worry about how the car's running right now from what you described. Do, however, take the advice I'm sure you've seen in some of your searches and remove the front bumper cover to clean out the ducts for the radiators. They collect all sorts of debris, and this will hamper their performance and eventually lead to corrosion.

[dbear61]

As I posted in another thread, I purchased my 01 S in May in Chico, CA and drove it back to Milwaukee, WI.

What I didn't post is that on day 2 of the drive the Eng Temp light started flashing, but temp never rose above a bit over 180. Next morning I added (cheap) coolant, which kept light off for approx 500 miles, then it started flashing again. More coolant to get home, recurrant problem with coolant loss, flashing light but never a temp greater than just over 180.

First opportunity I get it into the local dealer. 3 days later verdict is a cracked reservoir tank. I know some of you have tackled this, but I have neither the tools nor the patience nor the experience to handle this on my own. $1800 repair. The light no longer flashes, but temp still runs up to 180+ and holds.

Bear

[thom4782]

Wow...$1,800. I had an independent replace my tank a few years ago and they did it for less than $500.

[laphan]

I'm currently working as a cooling/heat manage ment engineer associated with one of the oem here in MI. The actual coolant temp exiting the engine or what we called top water temperature is not always the same with what the gauge is showing you. We actually can program the gauge to show temps range. So when you see 180 reading, it can be a real 180c or more depending on how the oem program the gauge. Customers does not like to see temperature gauge to show more than half way, depending on the situation (cost and styling restrictions) some cars run a bit hotter but still within the safe zone. The coolant temps limit are actually pretty high, it will not boil up tp 123C with 14psi cap. We do not want to run the engine to that temp not because the engine cannot withstand those temps as we can calibrate the hardware to work with that 123C/253F but the engine oil temp will go to unacceptable limit. We prefer oil temp to be below 140c for non synthetic or 160c for synthetic. Once oil goes to that high temp, many things can happen including accelerated engine wear. The bigger sump normally leads to higher oil capacity and lower oil temp but higher cost for oem. Another way is oil cooler which is not a cheap option, we like it but the finace group does not.... removing anything in the vehicle is not a good idea since we always design the vehicle to work with minimum cost to build. We try to build a car with least amount of parts possible due to cost, weight and fuel economy.

[speedyturtle]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

I wouldn't say you're running too hot. The gauge is not the most accurate device out there, and really the only time you need to be concerned is if you reach or go past the 3rd mark (unlabeled, signifies 215° F), hit the 250° mark, or see a flashing or steady red light above the 250° mark. My car tends to never go back to touching the 180° mark once it passes it, and I find that most of the time I'm somewhere around the 0, either touching one of its edges or sitting in the middle of it. Unless I can get the car out in some clear air (no traffic in front of me) and 50+mph, it'll simply run in that range as I drive around the city or get stuck behind someone on the highway. When I'm cruising on the highway with no one in front and plenty of air getting to the radiators and ducting, the needle can run back down to just slightly to the right of the 180° mark.

I think I can safely assume that your commuting tends to be similar to mine if you're in any sort of urban setting in NJ, so don't worry about how the car's running right now from what you described. Do, however, take the advice I'm sure you've seen in some of your searches and remove the front bumper cover to clean out the ducts for the radiators. They collect all sorts of debris, and this will hamper their performance and eventually lead to corrosion.

Originally Posted by jotoole

That's right about where my needle stays year round. I've driven the car below -10 zero F and lately regularly 100+.

Originally Posted by Crono0001

It gets really hot here in Arizona (105+ every day), and if I drive the car in stop-go traffic, it tends to climb to the middle of the 0 of the 180 as well. If traffic gets really bad (backed up highway), the temperatures are able to climb even higher than that. As soon as I'm passed the 3/4th mark, I usually pull over and let the car cool.

I've had several mechanics look at it without being able to find any problem. Coolant level is fine, radiators work, water pump works... It works fine at night when it drops to the low 90's.

Thanks for the reassurance guys was just a little concerned after reading up on it! Glad to know that's pretty standard

[jcb986]

I live in Florida, my temp during the summer is around 185...with original pump and thermostat.

[Soetekouw]

2007 Boxster S. Temperature is steady at 175 degrees.

[JAAY]

Unless you are using a obd2 reader of some sort the stock gauge is worthless. In traffic on a 90+ deg. day I see over 215 sometimes.