If changing gear most of the time at 6000 or 7000 rpms, will the clutch wear out quic
 

Does the clutch wear out quicker if changing gears at high rpms?

correct me if i'm wrong, but riding your clutch would wear them out faster.

but why are you shifting at 6K-7K all the time? besides using more gas, i don't see the need unless you're always driving at full tilt :) but i got to admit it is damn fun to wring out the engine to redline every so often....hehee ;)

What do you mean by riding the clutch?

I dont slip the clutch, just change gears at high rpms because this car is just for the track or mountain twisties on Sunday mornings.

In other words , its just a car for fun.

Riding the clutch is driving with the clutch pedal partially depressed almost the entire time your driving.

I drive mine like that a lot, 69,000 on the clutch so far, no issues yet.

No no I dont ride the clutch , just revved to redline all the time.

Riding the clutch does two things;
1. If you drive with your foot partially depressed on the clutch pedal, it will engage the throw out bearing on the pressure plate and the throw out bearing will spin with the engine RPM causing premature wear.
2. From the time when the clutch disc touches the fly wheel until it's full engaged and spinning the same RPM's the disc is "slipping". The less time the disc slips the less wear on the disc. (I'm not advocating side stepping the clutch, that's a whole other story)

To answer the original question, if your quick and smooth with your shifts you should be alright. Just a personal thought; There's an old saying that I live by, and being a mechanic all my life I can attest to it;

Double the RPM, triple the wear.

P.S. You like to rev it to the redline? Remember that the computer logs rev limiter and over rev's. My new Durametric scanning tool showed my '04 S was 0/0 on both counters. Good news for reselling and warranty work.

If you are afraid of clutch wear there is one simple fix - don't use the clutch. That's right, I said, don't use the clutch. If you shift smoothly and slowly and put it back in gear at the exact rev-matched RPM you don't need a clutch.

Try it at low RPMs sometime. Pop it into neutral with your foot on the gas just a little. Then lot the RPMs drop for the next gear, rest your hand on the shifter and apply gentle pressure. It will drop right in.

Now, I do not recommend doing this as a regular habit. But doing it a few times will give you a better feel for how the drivetrain wants to shift. Then shift like that but with the clutch and you should get very long clutch life.

Regards,
Alan

Assuming you are using the clutch correctly, no worries.

Your engine is another matter. Keep redlining that baby and you will get a nice $12K surprise.

Good luck.

PS-Do a search here on blown engines. It may change your driving habits.

Good luck.

Anyone doing this should be ready for some expensive tranny repairs.

Where is the proof that shifting at redline (not exceeding it) hurts these cars? :)

I've shifted mine above 7000 at full throttle at least a 1000 times by now (15 times yesterday).

69,000 and counting.....

While I wouldn't recommend doing it all the time, upshifting without the clutch in the way described won't damage the tranny. The problem is that when you push the lever forward to engage the synchro, the bigger the speed difference between the engine and tranny, the more wear you put on the synchro. If you're very skilled and consistent, you could probably keep wear to a minimum - but why do it? That's why you have a clutch in the first place. For me, it's a good technique to know (though not on my own Boxster - it's a Tip) in case you ever have clutch issues and need to get home.

If you want to really refine your skills, learn to downshift without the clutch, a bit more of a challenge to do it smoothly.

In terms of wear, the way I think of it is by the cost of the components. Brakes are cheaper than a clutch, and clutches are cheaper than a tranny. So, I use my brakes instead of engine braking, and use my clutch to minimize tranny wear. On my M3 and 914, I've always been in the habit of double-clutching all downshifts, it's only marginally slower and saves a bit of synchro wear, while giving you a jerk-free gearchange.

I've been hearing this advice since the 70s, and have a long history of fixing teenager's transmissions after they have tried this.

If you wish not to use the clutch, install a tranny without synchros.

Is this really true? My impression is that most of the dead motors I've seen on this forum weren't due to high revs, rather, they were caused by design flaws in the motor (e.g. cylinder liner, IMS) that weren't triggered by high revs.

If you can't redline your Porsche, what good is it? I've regularly redlined all the BMW's and Porsche's I've owned as that's what they were designed to do. I've banged the rev limiter on all my cars more times than I could count - even our Toyota minivan!

Another Paul that knows how to drive Porsches!!!!

Now you've done it. It'll probably throw a rod the next time I hit redline :)

Sorry, I have to chime in here...

Redline (max recommended RPM's) and rev limiters are in place for one reason and one reason only by the manufacturer. If you exceed them, permanent engine damage will result, period. So constant revving up to it- I'm sure isn't good.

As I said in a past post, the on board diagnostics records all over-rev's and length of ignition interruptions (rev limiter). Big brother's recording you and if the dealer sees it while doing warranty work, forget about it! :eek:

I guess you can rev minivans to redline all the time and nothing will harm them right?

Chime heard, but I've been rebuilding motors since the 70s....

I agree about hitting the rev limiter during the warranty period, I try to shift just below it.

I'm not concerned about the OBD records on my Boxster or my M3 for that matter. The engine has a maximum speed that it can be safely operated at, and your rev limiter prevents you from exceeding it. Touching factory redline under acceleration is not abuse for any motor I've ever owned. The actual amount of time your engine spends at redline is miniscule when compared to the amount of time you spend at part load and moderate engine speeds.

Many manufacturers (including Porsche) do endurance testing on their motors under lab and track conditions where the engines are run at or near redline conditions, with WOT, for hours at a time. No owner would ever have the opporunity to subject their motor to such stress.

The way I look at it is that if a motor cannot be operated at redline, then it isn't redline. If touching redline from time to time causes my motor to fail, then the motor's design and/or engineering is flawed, and if the manufacturer won't back up their product, then I won't buy from them again.

Great quote there. :)

Hey it's your car, I was just giving my opinion on shifting at redline. As an aircraft mechanic for 24 years that works on his own car I know the consequence of abuse. Just because it's a Porsche doesn't make it bulletproof.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care what you do to your car. I just hope you don't experience valve float and bang a piston.

Use it, abuse it and accept the outcome...it's your money and time, not mine.

Redline = Abuse? Redline = Float a valve? Of course not. If so, every BMW and Porsche DE event I've ever been at would be a sea of broken engines. It doesn't happen.

Abuse is doing WOT acceleration to over 4K with cold oil. Abuse is pulling a money shift from 5th to 3rd on the track. Abuse is ignoring oil starvation in 180 degree sweepers on the track (something our Boxster engines are designed to prevent).

I drive my car as it was designed to do. If Porsche is afraid of that, hey, there are many other options out there.

I've been driving Porsches this way since 1974 haven't hit a valve yet....

You've got me, I've only been doing for 25 years (since late '82). To me, the ability to run the cars hard (on the track, especially) is what sets them apart from the posers. You frequently see people out at NASA or other events with your standard "high performance" street cars (e.g. Nissan's, Mustangs, Hondas, etc). They may do well for a few laps, but often end up with severe brake fading, overheating, etc. Even the early Vipers would toast their brakes after a few laps at a tight track. Not so with Porsches and BMW's, they can run lap after lap without issue.

The day Porsche or BMW stop making cars that can do this, they'll be no different than any other street car, and the reason for owning them will be gone.

Not impressive considering you drive the chicktronic. If you had on 04 S that was a manual with 0/0 redlines itd either have like 30 miles on it or your 90 years old and dont drive above 30 MPH :P

So what is the answer to the original question? I don't think I saw it. Is there a relationship to RPMs and clutch wear? I can't figure how there could be, but what do I know?

"So remember a few rules:
-.....
-do not use this forum as a vehicle to attack others"

I remember reading this when I first signed up for this forum, and I've giving my advise just like everyone else here to help others.

Now I have this Silent Blunder guy coming out of nowhere and doggin' my car like a jealous little bi*ch.

There's no reason for trash talk in this forum. Anytime you want to run against my "chicktronic" let me know, I'm just next door.

Dave

Ha! Im not attacking you. You drive a TIPtronic (happy?), you cant redline it because its an automatic. A simple statement of fact, so get your facts straight.

And why would you resort to a level LOWER than myself by name calling? You are a hypocrite dave. A sensitive one at that, as you made clear.

You really don't your cars do you? " you cant redline it because its an automatic. A simple statement of fact, so get your facts straight."

Anyone reading this knows by that statement that you don't know what your talking about.

Alright, I should have specified. A correctly working factory tuned automatic. You could go past redline if you reflashed your control module.

Last I check you can bounce a Tip off the rev limiter just like you can bounce a manual off the rev limiter.

Your wrong on this one Bogg....ummm Silent Thunder.

Eeeahhh...wrong again genius. In the automatic mode it shifts using different modes depending on how you drive it. In the manual mode you shift it through the gears using the steering wheel thumb paddles, shifting in .2 tenths of a sec.

O' by the way, you can keep it any gear up to whatever rpm it can handle.

Funny, I thought I would have to defend my cars performance against other manufacturers similar products, not my peers own cars.

I'm done with this thread.

My Boxster has Tip, too, it's an interesting tranny to drive. I've had manual boxes for ages, so like everyone else here, I'm well-versed in using a manual on the road and track. My Boxster has Tip because the car was the best deal I was looking at, and my wife isn't a big fan of manuals and I figured she'd like it more.

Turns out it's a pretty fun setup. As Jaxonalden says, it performs very well. I took my car on a 250 mile mountain run a few months ago, where I figured I'd have it under manual control the whole time. Turns out that I found that automatic mode worked better for the speeds and conditions I was driving in, as it was much faster at downshifting to the optimal gear for passing, did all the WOT shifts at redline, and held the gear when going off throttle after passing. I couldn't have done better manually. With extra HP of an S it would have been pretty awesome.

Sure, you lose the direct connection of a manual box, but for 99% of the driving you do on the street, it's pretty nice.

Turns out a moderator can't even take a few days off to visit his grandson. :D

Anyway, lets all chlll out here. We will NEVER resolve this issue of driving at redline. If you want to hit the RL all the time, I hope you are doing it at the track because the street is likely not the place you want to be doing these speeds.

Having said that, if you want to blow up your engine, drive it PAST redline at all times. Also, put in cheap oil and drop the clutch as often as you can. Oh, and drifting is really good for the tires also.


Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Congrats on the grandfather thing!

I wonder how many grandfathers redline their Porsches. :cheers:

Thanks. It is a blast being a GF. The kid is a trip, and I love him totally. One of the compensations for getting older.

Not sure on the redline thing. I think time has changed what it means to be a GF.

:)

Someone else shares my point of view.

From:

http://www.autofarm.co.uk/pdf/Total911_July06.pdf

"That said, he and Steve say that, if
your engine’s going to fail, there’s not
much you can do to prevent it. Although
Nick has his own pet theory: “Jonathan
Palmer Motorsport has several 3.4-litre
cars which are driven hard on the track
every day,” he says. “These engines are
running fine, whereas maybe those that
have been driven more sedately seem to
suffer problems!”

Here's a grandfather not afraid of a redline!!
From another thread today on the same subject, the VVT means never needing to shift at redline.
Proved it out at Gainesville Dragway a few weeks ago. Fastest run of three was shifting at 6200, slowest was shifting at 7000.
If I felt like going out to the garage, I'd get the tickets.
Shifting at 6200 - 14.032 @99.98
Shifting at 7000 was about 14.6 and just over 97 mph.
2006 3.2 S

I just like the rush to 7000 that my 2.7 has in 1st and 2ond....