Shortlived Boxster engines survey

[lhatchell]

Hello All. I am new to this forum, in fact new to any forum. I purchased my first Porsche 4 years ago. It is a used 03 Boxster that I didn't purchase from a Porsche dealer. I have greatly enjoyed it and wish I had the time and space to work on it myself. I have always taken it to the dealer for service/repair and have kept up the maintenance. My question is about this IMS bearing failure that I have been reading about. Will the shop be able to tell if the IMS is wearing out. Do they check that kind of thing when I have the oil changed? I have had the clutch replaced, the RMS replaced and the 75K service done and so far no one has said anything about the IMS to me at the dealer. Any response is greatly appreciated and forgive me if I am posting in the wrong place. I'll get better. Thanks

[Porsche9]

Originally Posted by lhatchell

Hello All. I am new to this forum, in fact new to any forum. I purchased my first Porsche 4 years ago. It is a used 03 Boxster that I didn't purchase from a Porsche dealer. I have greatly enjoyed it and wish I had the time and space to work on it myself. I have always taken it to the dealer for service/repair and have kept up the maintenance. My question is about this IMS bearing failure that I have been reading about. Will the shop be able to tell if the IMS is wearing out. Do they check that kind of thing when I have the oil changed? I have had the clutch replaced, the RMS replaced and the 75K service done and so far no one has said anything about the IMS to me at the dealer. Any response is greatly appreciated and forgive me if I am posting in the wrong place. I'll get better. Thanks

The dealer is never going to tell you about the IMS issue (see the lawsuit against Porsche on the issue). The only real way to check on it is to remove it. Checking the oil filter for metal shavings is another way but at that point you may have already done some damage. The best time to have checked/replaced it was when you replaced the clutch and RMS. Check out the search function on this forum and you will find why more information/discussion on the topic then you may care for plus you will learn who Jake Raby is. Welcome to the forum. You will find a lot of information and a great community that is super willing to help with information.

[49er986]

Hello there everyone!

I am a newbie to the site and as a Porsche 986 owner. I have a 98 w 69K. Bought it for 9K it is is immaculate inside and out, feel very blessed. As my luck, Check Engine Light came on the day after I bought it which is actually great timing. I panicked a bit because of all the issues I kept reading about IMS and other failures. So, I consulted with many on where to take my Boxster and sure enough found a reputable shop ready to take my money as a result. They were very helpful and very informative, made me feel like they would take care of me.

They gave me a break on total cost to inspect the vehicle and gave me a print out of what is wrong. I have to replace the water pump and some other items plus they will replace the serpentine belt at that time which is good I'd wager. Total cost of all seven items to be worked on? $2.2K.

What I want to ask is whether or not I should just replace the IMS at the time I do that work? Given what I have seen so far in this thread, it looks like it would cost less do it at that time because of the work being done for the water pump? Is that correct or does it matter? In addition, is there anything else I should do at this mileage threshold?

I am following ALL the positive advice I find on the forum like registering with Porsche for example. I want to baby Heidi (Yea, I christened her). She deserves it so I'm doing all the work plus an oil change. In July, new meats, too.

I still can't believe I'm a Porsche owner, really. She's just so wonderful to drive even though I'm am babying her till the end of the month. Once she comes back, we are driving up HWY 1 on the California Coast.

Thanks in advance for sharing your rolodex of information. I look forward to browsing through more of the forum. Peace.

Here she is BTW:

[Bobiam]

Have you checked out the class action settlement located at this link? FAQs | IMS Porsche Settlement You'll need to plug in your VIN. Probably would not be much $ for you if you are eligible, but anything is better than nothing.

Fine looking car. For less than $12K you appear to have gotten a nice car.

[san rensho]

Originally Posted by 49er986

Hello there everyone!

I am a newbie to the site and as a Porsche 986 owner. I have a 98 w 69K. Bought it for 9K it is is immaculate inside and out, feel very blessed. As my luck, Check Engine Light came on the day after I bought it which is actually great timing. I panicked a bit because of all the issues I kept reading about IMS and other failures. So, I consulted with many on where to take my Boxster and sure enough found a reputable shop ready to take my money as a result. They were very helpful and very informative, made me feel like they would take care of me.

They gave me a break on total cost to inspect the vehicle and gave me a print out of what is wrong. I have to replace the water pump and some other items plus they will replace the serpentine belt at that time which is good I'd wager. Total cost of all seven items to be worked on? $2.2K.

What I want to ask is whether or not I should just replace the IMS at the time I do that work? Given what I have seen so far in this thread, it looks like it would cost less do it at that time because of the work being done for the water pump? Is that correct or does it matter? In addition, is there anything else I should do at this mileage threshold?

I am following ALL the positive advice I find on the forum like registering with Porsche for example. I want to baby Heidi (Yea, I christened her). She deserves it so I'm doing all the work plus an oil change. In July, new meats, too.

I still can't believe I'm a Porsche owner, really. She's just so wonderful to drive even though I'm am babying her till the end of the month. Once she comes back, we are driving up HWY 1 on the California Coast.

Thanks in advance for sharing your rolodex of information. I look forward to browsing through more of the forum. Peace.

Here she is BTW:

You have a dual row IMSB bearing which has a failure rate of less zthan 1%, so you have a decision to make, replace it now to make sure you do not fall victim to a very small chance of failure or wait to replace it when the clutch goes, one even not to replace it when you replace the clutch.

My car has a dual row bearing and I'm not doing anything until I replace the clutch.

[Mart]

Looks immaculate !

[Porsche Boy]

I am a new owner of a 2003 Boxster with 49000 on the clock. Based on the service book a new engine was installed after 22000 miles in October 2005. After some research it looks like it has a Porsche reman. Engine number is M96/23AT65469 where I believe AT indicates remanufactured and the 4 indicates 2004. Looks like 69 is the serial # so I don't know if that means the 69th reman built of that series?
I have not seen many postings on second engines biting the big one so I am wondering if by 2004 Porsche was doing anything different with a now obvious problem or were they just throwing engines in the cars to satisfy the customer. Would the RMS be much better by 2004?
Like everybody else I am wondering what to do. For what you can buy these for today its not terrible to put some more money in for the IMS but I don't believe it needs a clutch or RMS yet. I guess I am lucky its already been done once which hopefully makes my odds a littler better.

[BruceH]

Beautiful car, congrats and welcome to the forum! My understanding is that you would be subject to the same chances of failure. I have not seen anything as to a different bearing being used, in fact engines built after 2004 are still subject to failure. I believe it is 2009 when you no longer have to worry. Driving the car like it is meant to be driven along with oil changes every 5000 miles or at least once per year will go a long way towards keeping your bearing healthy. But then there are no guarantees in life. Me personally, I would not worry about it until it is clutch time. That is my plan and my car currently has 74K miles on it. I also send an oil sample off to Blackstone Labs for piece of mind, check my filter for shavings and have a magnetic drain plug. The LN spin on oil filter adapter is next on my list with my next oil change. So far, so good!

[Paul]

Just to update everyone, I replaced this motor with a used one in 2011 and recently sold the failed motor to Jake with a request for a failure analysis. Today I received word that it was a stretched timing chain which I assume must have been the chain between the crank and IMS, since valves were bent on both heads.

From page 8 of this thread:

Originally Posted by Paul

Found some more time today so I removed the cylinder head cover for 4-6. Looks like 10,000 -12,000 mile oil changes with Mobil 1 at least kept the engine clean:



Another blow down check verified all valves are bent since air flows from both the exhaust ports and the intake manifold:



All chains are intact and working:




I'm guessing the gear on the IMS must have slipped 360 degrees. This means a complete tear down is needed.

[Porsche Boy]

Best analysis of the IMS problem I have found which might account for why they fail early or after many miles:

IMS thoughts from Mikes Specialty Automotive:

Ironically, although my background is in a different industry, I had 35 years' experience with the same precision bearing that Porsche uses in their cars. I found the failure rate to be very similar both in my former industry as it is in Porche's.

Three things caused the bearings to fail:

1. Bad installation during the manufacturing of the product. I have a feeling that engines that were built outside of Germany are sub-standard. Bearings that might have been damaged during installation would have accounted for the early engine failures of 10,000 miles.

2. Breakdown of the seals that lead to contamination of the lifetime grease. At this point, it only a matter of time before you have chunks of your IMS bearing swimming in the oil.

3. Over-stress of the bearing wherein an over-rev from a bad downshift causes huge stress on all engine components of your Porsche. Automatics don't have miss-shifts, and I think that this is why you see less IMS failures in this type of car.

What to do to protect your Porsche Boxster:
In my case, I will change the bearing on my Porsche Boxster every 40,000 miles with a new Intermediate Shaft Bearing (IMS). This is not crazy, because it is a high end sports car. Ferrari's of the same year have their timing belts changed every 30,000 miles at a cost of about $12,000.00.

[will2002]

Originally Posted by JCL12

The 2 big sources of engine failure I have heard of:

1) Sleeve Slip Failure - Only on early models which have some engine defects "repaired" (instead of reworked to print). I think 1997 (USA) is the only year you need to avoid for this

2) IMS (intermediate shaft) failure - ALL models up to and including todays


Sadly, this crap is a worry we all must deal with and just hope it never happens. Following subsequent revisions to the design of the engines (minor tweaks/revs) it is clear porsche knows of the defect and its possible affects, yet they make no real acknowledgement and provide on official relief. (Think about what mazda did for almost all the RX8s).

Makes me strongly consider never buying a Pcar again, but the RMR and the label is such a draw

FWIW, I would never buy a 1999 with 20k miles. That is too low - I would almost be more comfortable if it had 40K worry free miles. The 20k milage on a '99 isn't worth the premium at all

-----------
Hello, in response to your comments above: I recently purchased a 2002 Boxster from a Rover dealer in NJ. looks & ran great, 38k, two owner car. car was traded in & received major service for oil seal leak, new clutch, etc from sister Porsche dealer. have copy of $4200 service invoice. important point in decision to buy this car.

6 weeks later, catastrophic engine failure. IMS failure! I have driven many cars totaling almost 2 million miles & have never experienced an engine failure.

fortunately, the dealer included a used car warranty at the time of purchase, so the repair/engine replacement was covered. (fyi - re-manufactured engine was supplied by Vertex in Miami, FL. includes one year warranty from time of purchase, 11 months to me by the time I got the car back).

one week after I got the car back, I needed to return to have the headlight switch repaired/replaced, also covered. so far I have spent $350 on repairs for one remote replacement (key).

both a major failure and incredible luck that it happened under warranty, from a terrific dealer; Princeton Rover. they treated me VERY well. cannot imagine facing the cost of an engine replacement.

I will keep the car for now, but it will probably be both my first & last Porsche.


good to luck to all readers. will2002

[jetspanner]

good evening all , just thought to share with you my experience and provide some feedback , Boxster 2002 2.7 single row , 60k miles (95k km) I'm the third owner but the first doesn't count much as he only had the car for 3k km . Oil leak evident , no debris in filter . RMS dry , IMS leaking , I replaced it with an LN part , the removed bearing was in good shape - apart from the fact that it was leaking - beginning of the countdown I guess , The previous owner is a friend ,he had always maintained the car and regularly changed the oil , probably the reason the bearing was in good shape ??? I also changed the clutch and the coolant tank . Very very happy and glad I did the job . Thanks Steve for advice :dance:

[Steve Tinker]

Good to hear....
Here's hoping you have many, many trouble free km from your car now you have bitten the bullet.

[dannythemanny]

Originally Posted by Steve Tinker

Good to hear....
Here's hoping you have many, many trouble free km from your car now you have bitten the bullet.

I think the whole IMS thing is over stressed and not necessarily a problem most people need to worry about. Unofficial figures quote less than 10% incidence overall across many years and we all know there are no 'official' figures. A lot of scare mongering is going on here especially from companies with a vested interest.

[njbray]

Originally Posted by dannythemanny

I think the whole IMS thing is over stressed and not necessarily a problem most people need to worry about. Unofficial figures quote less than 10% incidence overall across many years and we all know there are no 'official' figures. A lot of scare mongering is going on here especially from companies with a vested interest.

I have just purchased an immaculate 43000 mile 2001 with a full service history. I purchased it privately so no warranty! The first thing i had done was IMS, clutch and water pump. I am very glad I did. I have just opened up the old IMS and it seems perfect BUT is full of oil not grease! In my view these bearings are not made to run on oil so it is only a matter of time before it starts to fail.
I would not have been comfortable just driving it around until I needed a clutch, now I don't need to worry for the next 60,000 miles.
I think we need to consider IMS a service item and not just hope that it's going to be ok.
If you want cheap worry free motoring go buy a Toyota not a Porsche!

[coloradosteve]

So a Pelican link sent me here. I had put my whole story behind me. I bought a 2000 2.7 new in April of 2000. Four years and 22k miles later I had the IMS failure. Total engine writeoff. I spent a bunch of money (~$6000) out of pocket to replace the engine, no warranty help. Now just today I learn of the class action suit, but I don't qualify! Why? Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks,
Steve
Never again Porsche

[fleur]

I'm dreaming to buy porsche before but after reading some of reviews. I need to rethink though I'm determined to have one.

[Giller]

Originally Posted by fleur

I'm dreaming to buy porsche before but after reading some of reviews. I need to rethink though I'm determined to have one.

You're coming here to see if you want a Porsche? You do know that forums like these are breeding grounds for complaints and concerns, right? People come here to get help with challenges (Which all 10 year old or more cars need).
What you need to know: Find a good one. A thorough PPI will help with that. Budget 2K a year for maintenance. These are older cars and need some love. They are one of the best driving machines you will ever experience. Then go to the link below:
2002 Porsche Boxster Convertible Review | Edmunds.com (change out 2002 for model year you are interested in).

[gary.ritter2]

hello there .i am new in this forums..so please share a new experience with me

[Merida]

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and How I get verification about Paypal,??