SUVs let's hear it!
 

I am on the fast-track to buy a new SUV. I am concentrated on the cayenne s and the x5 4.4

I will be towing 6k lb boat with it almost every summer weekend, and need it to be "cute" enough for my wife to drive durring the week. The fx and lexus are out with no tow capacity. If you have other suggestions that fit the guidelines, let them fly.

I have driven a brand new caynne s and a 70k mile x5. The stearing and throttle response is good on both of them, but the x5 feels like it has a sloppy suspension (70 miles?) They are both comfy, and I need to hear some pro/cons. Mostly cons, let me know if one is dangerous and should be avoided.

Lexus out, why? Other than if you mean the RX b/c of tow capacity.

With a 6K # boat, I'd personally insist on something that'll definitely tow it w/out any problems what so ever. Highway is one thing but hills/mtns (up or down) and boat ramps are another. Cayenne will, X5 might, 4Runner will, Explorer won't, why not the Lexus GX470? Tow capacity is 6500# w/ std hitch. Lots of power, good suspension, and all sorts of creature comforts. I have an enclosed 5x10 trailer I pull w/ my GX and honestly even when it's loaded, you can barely even tell it's there. With the back up camera & height adj rear suspension - it's about as simple as can be to hook up.

Take a look again at the GX. Yes, it's bigger than the Cayenne and X5, but definitely smaller than a Yukon, Expedition, Sequoia, etc.

You want to tow that big of a load with an X5 or Cayenne? I don't suggest it. The tow rating on an X5 is 6,000lbs and that doesn't allow for much wiggle room with regard to payload (i.e. are you going to have anything else in the truck when you're towing the boat? Probably...) The Cayenne is 7500 lbs or so if I recall correctly.

Personally I'd much rather have a body-on-frame to tow that much weight, and I'd really want a diesel. We tow a 3,000lb car on a 2,100lb trailer routinely. With a decent payload in the truck (tires, tools, jack, passengers, etc) the truck is routinely hauling over 6,000lbs. We use a Nissan Armada and it has no trouble with it, but that's a full-frame truck, and if we had any more weight than that I would really want more truck - diesel pickup, diesel SUV (Suburban et al).

I can't understand the appeal of driving ANY of these vehicles as daily drivers, but to each their own.

With a 6k boat plus trailer, you want something with a frame and not unibody construction. Unless you want to replace transmissions, find something that has a towing package as an option. You also have to consider weight, you don't want the tail wagging the dog. My Sequoia works great, I would look for something similar.

I'm coming from a 2007 tundra, a 2002 tundra, a 1996 range rover, a 1996 land rover, and a 1995 z71. I know the benefits of the large truck, but I have danced it enough to know I can get by with much less.

I estimate the boat 6k, if that, fully loaded with fuel, ice, offshore rods/tackle, ect. If the little SUVs cannot handle it, I have the option of making someone else drive. Anyone who would be coming with me has capable cars/trucks, but I think I will be fine with either of those two options.

Burg, you are right, the RX is out because of towing, and the GX is out because of size. The 4 runner feels old to me already, and I am not overly impressed with the driving experience. The new highlander cannot tow for me.

Triumph- same problem with the seqouia, my dad has one, fantastic truck and it tows my boat with ease, but, too large.

John, have you driven any of them, the cayenne makes great daily driver, and with child on the way, it beats the hell out of a minivan.

Let's do this, since I may not get the best of both worlds, towing aside, do you have any hesitations with either of the cars, or any suggestions with anything else in the size range.

My friend has a large, enclosed trailer that they tow the GT3 around in. Has a Cayenne Turbo, but prefers to tow with their Ford F250 "BFT" (i.e. Big F*****g Truck). I think you are way on the limit with that kind of weight, towing with a Cayenne.

I have a V8 Touareg and love it. The Touareg is based on the same platform as the Cayenne and is in my opinion much better looking. You would also save big money by going with the Touareg. In addition, you can get a V10 Diesel Touareg that is stacked with torque, so you could pretty much tow a house.

Some of the Touareg benefits:

- Great engines 355HP V8 or V10 Diesel
- Good pricing
- Beautiful interior
- Comfortable
- Lots of towing grunt
- More space than an X5

Let me know if you have any additional questions specific to the Touareg.

Max,

A little perspective from an old river rat.

My big boat is about 4500 lbs dry and though I have pulled it with a v6 4Runner I prefer to pull it with a BFT Tahoe, Silverado etc. We have mountains... big ones. I need plenty of pulling power, super cooling and tons of stopping power.

You are in Louisiana. No mountains. You could probably get your boat to the ramp and back in a Rav4 but the tail would want to wag the dog. The Cayenne or X5 should be ok on flat ground. The only thing I don't like about the X5 is the small cargo area in back. A tradeoff for a smaller SUV. Good hunting.

I've always wanted a Porsche Cayenne with the TechArt Body Kit and Hood. Check out this bad boy!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...0_1024x768.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...1_1024x768.jpg

Just bought a new for 07 X5 3.0 for Mrs Sixter. I can only guess the one with 70k miles was clapped out, cuz this one handles great with all the sport options. Also got to track (and off-road) similar one at Spartenburg, SC, as part of factory delivery. (Highly recommended. Woo hoo.

We have no heavy trailer requirement, and it is her daily driver. She loves it. We just put 6k miles on it during trip to NorCal for T-day, and it is a wunnerful road car.

Cayenne not a good option as dealer is 2.5 hours away, and one car going there is enough. New Jeep not option cuz she came to hate hers. Considered VW, Acura/Honda, Mercedes, Mazda, Volvo, and even Suzuki.

The new X5 is bigger'n we realized. Tried to park in the garage spot behind my 914 previously occupied by 99 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Wouldn't fit!

Don't rule out the X5 until after driving a new one. Our dealer's test drive was best & most exhilerating ever and really sold her on the car after driving the Benz.

[QUOTE=drburton] V10 Diesel Touareg QUOTE]

I never knew such a thing existed.

I completely left out the Toaureg, didnt even think about it. I have an appointment for a test drive tonight! I like the looks of it, the size is perfect, the dealership is 2 minutes from my house (45 for porsche, BMW, Mercedes, and lexus) We will see about this.

Topless, you are speaking my language. As long as the car can pull the boat up the ramp and over 2 bridges, I am fine. No hills, no speed, no dangers.

Spyder, truly beautiful cayenne. The techart kit probably cost half of my whole car budget.

70, great review, I appreciate it and hope to make the hike to test drive a new one this weekend.

Let me know how the Touareg test drive goes. I'll attach a picture of my beast. Love it. :D

I have a limited grand cherokee and thought a very long time before buying this. It was between it and a range rover, but w/it being close to half the price the jeep seemed the way to go. Big engine, capable 4wd, interior has every comfort option of all other suvs. I like to drive to the mtns to ski alot as well as pull my boat and jet skis w/it. I love the truck personally...its my daily driver. Plus there is a great internet forum for jeep owners.

Al Gore would prefer that you find a nice hybrid SUV or truck to tow your boat.

Or, buy Carbon Credits and all will be forgiven~!

:D

Bruce, you are right, then I burn 100 gallons of gas in the water running 70 miles out. I wonder if he can make me some hybrid outboards?

There will be no FUN allowed in an era of Global Climate Catastrophe! Sell your boat and go green, go vegan!

Merry Chrismas!

:D

The 08 hummer h2 (and the cadillac escalade) have about 400hp and a new 6 speed tranny and lots of interior room now with the new escalade interior and seating for 8 and towing is over 8000 now. Of course the new escalade has all the same features with a little better gas milage but its not a hummer. All this starting in low 50 grand which is cheaper than anything compariable.

I could never deal with the image of owning a Cayenne (it's the ultimate yuppie poseurmobile) but they're definitely nice vehicles.

It sounds like you don't have to tow very far, so I suppose either would work out OK. I would certainly prefer the V10 TDI Toureg if you can deal with the VW unreliability.

cayenne hands down the best suv

Why are you hauling a 6K lb boat every weekend instead of leaving it docked somewhere? Would it be "cheaper" to pay a marina fee and just drive a regular car down to the boat?

What about passengers? How are they getting there? In the tow vehicle? 4-5 people can be another 1,000lbs to take into consideration in addition to the 6000lb "trailer" rig.

Touregg Diesels are hard to come by. Taken off the market last year do to lack of low sulfer diesel. Plus, they run about $60K new. Then again, 550 or so FT-LB of torque can pull a heck of a lot.

To me, "can" you make a T-Egg or Cayenne work? yes. It might be on the more marginal side of things though.

What is the "dock" like where the boat goes in. I'd be concerned about the short wheelbase of the T-EGG/Cayanne and the front wheels getting air trying to pull 6-7K lbs (wet) on a lippery boat ramp, with water lapping up on your $2k muffler ;) and do it every weekend? Or even every other weekend?

Get the right tool for the job.. You want to pull a boat, YOU get to drive it.. F350 Dually, Diesel if you want :) Load up the trailer bed with a jet ski, wet gear, etc as well.


In another unpopular vote, SUV's and kids are hard too.. Climbing up on step rails, in the wet, to reach a middle infant seat is miserable. even more so if the rear door openings are narrow. Then, as the kids get older, worrying about them opening the door into other cars (whether your Porsche in the garage, or a ******************** box at the mall). I never wanted a minivan, but a minivan is the perfect tool for the job. Simple to maintain. easy to drive. Get some power sliders and hatch and it makes life SOO much easier. Leaving room for a sliding door is a lot easier than for a full size "conventional" door. .. Besides, "one on the way" usually means even more to come ;)

Good luck with the decisions.. Who knows, once the kid is "out" maybe the boat will be gone.

haha, I thought I just read a thread that said the boxster was... written by a nissan guy.

I don't think my wife would mind the looks of angry people wondering who the "poseur" is driving the cayenne. What the hell is a poser anyway??

Once again, I am not worried about the tow rating. The v6 caynne base has the same tow capacity as the v8 s, the turbo, and the turbo s. I am not going far and not getting enough speed pull myself off the road.

As far as I am concerened the ratings are based on vehicle size and length more than their actual abilities. You cannot tell me a turbo s with more power than an h1 hummer cannot pull an 8k lb boat up a gentle boat ramp slope.

If my range rover that weighed 4401 with a 7700 lb tow capacity could handle it with ease, the 4950 lbs cayenne with the same tow capacity can do the same. Thats enough tow talk.

Although I did own an H1 open top back in the day and pulled 2 jet skiis with it, I do not recommend an H1, theyre terrible for highway use, and seating is terrible (only seats 4) . Also they stopped making the H1 and sticker prices were well over 100k.

The 08 H2 / Cadillac Escalade (same engine / drivetrain / 400 horsepower / 6 speed tranny) is what I recommend, which has seating for 8, leather everywhere heated seats in front and rear and lots of stuff for around low 50K's new with 100,000 mile warranty. The cayennes are nice but dont have a 3rd row seat I believe, they have less horsepower, less torque, smaller engine size, less seating, for more money. Also the escalade hybrid is due out anytime now.

I would seriously consider renting dock space, or a mooring. If you factor in the time you spend hauling the boat, extra gas, etc. every weekend. Paying $10 or so a foot for dock space a month makes more sense. Especially, with $3 a gallon gas.
But if you want to go with an SUV, you have the Boxster for luxury and fun, go buy a truck that was made to haul stuff around, that you can beat up, instead of looking like a fool towing a big boat about behind a luxury SUV. Luxury SUV's were made to look cool, not be used practically as often as you mention (every weekend).
Just my Opinion! :cheers:

Rick, unfortunetly, there is not many options for dock space where I fish. It's in the very lowest point of Louisiana, and needless to say, not many developers want to put money into something they cannot insure. What was there before is now gone with Katrina.

Buying a truck is not an option. I sold my 2007 4x4 trd double cab toyota tundra that hauled 11k lbs just yesterday. I will let you guys know how it goes.

PTeam, I like the escalades, and will take run a test drive with the smaller of the two soon.

I have all the time in the world to decide what I want/need, I am having a ball driving the boxster as my dd.

MAX, theres not really a smaller one unless you mean the regular escalade one vs the ESV, all the ESV does is add a little bit of extra room behind the 3rd row seat but all other interior room and everything else is the same. Theyre great cars and have everything. I like the hummer h2's more just because theyre more unique even though theyre pretty much the same car not counting exteriors.

I mean the taho sized, rather than the suburban sized.

The Porsche Cayenne makes an excellent tow vehicle. My boat and trailer weigh in at about 6500lbs. depending on what’s stored below.

That is a nice looking rig. Tons of fun, literally! :D

Cool! Corsair F-31?? Many miles logged in Corsairs.
Multihulls rock!
78 Sol Cat 18
82 Supercat 17
85 Tornado 20 (CF experimental)
88 Sea Wind 24
91 Hobie 16

Max, what about an Explorer with the V8? Can't it handle the weight?

How about the Tahoe with the hybrid engine?

Explorer w/ a V8 absolutely cannot handle that much weight.

Sure the hitch can.......... it's just the minor things like tranny, brakes, suspension and torque converter that cannot but who needs those anyways :D

I used to drive a '04 V8 Explorer - in fact it was the 5th Explorer in a row I'd had so I really used to like them. They were very predictable........ buy 'em cheap, put 75K on 'em and then dump 'em quick before you have to drop in a new tranny. I digress, sorry....

In all reality (w/ a full tank of gas and 0 passengers) it's truly only rated to haul like 1800#s w/ the factory class III/IV hitch. Trust me, when you have 1800#s attached to an Explorer, you know it too. I got t-boned by a horsefly one day when pulling my enclosed trailer..... damn thing almost put me in the ditch :D

You should be!!! You will ruin an expensive vehicle is you repeatedly tow over a vehicle's capacity.


Power is not the determining factor. A turbo s need RPMs to spool the turbo which generates its power and torque to move the load. The high RPM and a slow moving vehicle = new tranny.

The H 1 makes no power, but LOADS of TQ off throttle. Plus it has torque multiplying hubs and a super low granny gear, so can tow a small village with stressing it's tranny or other hardware.



There are many factors that go into tow ratings, and you should research the topic more thoroughly before spending serious $$. Based on your comments it seems that your understanding in not complete.

I have a 2004 Cayenne and used it to tow a track car and open car trailer (5,000lbs total load) and it worked brilliantly with the tiptronic. I honestly didn't think the V6 would have enough grunt and I was only going to use it as a stop-gap until I got a diesel truck, but the ability to tip down a gear on hills made it work really well as a tow vehicle. The V8 would likely handle your open boat trailer and 6,500lbs with no issues at all, especially with no hills. When I go to Road Atlanta and VIR I have to go through the mountains and that's a bit more of a challenge, but it handles it just fine.

I still have the Cayenne, but retired in from tow duty. I now pull an open 2 car trailer to events and use an F250 turbo diesel for the task (about 10,000 lbs tow weight), but if I do tow a single open trailer and don't have too much junk I prefer to use the Cayenne......such a nice ride.

One thing people neglect to consider sometimes is what you are towing. A 6,500 open boat trailer is a heck of a lot less taxing to tow than say a 5,000lb enclosed car trailer for example. It's the wind resistance. For example, my F250 has to work harder towing a big square single enclosed car trailer (about 6,000lbs) than my 10,000lb open 2 car trailer. The point being the V8 Cayenne will handle your boat on flat land no problem.

Good luck,
Mike

Burg, I just quickly looked at the owners manual for my 2007 Eddie Bauer with the V8 and it says 12,000 pounds gross towing weight and just over 7,100 pounds for the actual trailer weight.

This is my 3rd Explorer. All driven hard. First two both did over 70K miles. No issues other than standard maintenance (oil and fluid changes- never a brake service, all highway driving). But, my 2003 did have a rear diff go out after warranty, and Ford did give the leasing company (GE Fleet) a $1,500 refund because my company fleet manager complained.

bmussatti-
That's interesting...... Apparently, tow rating b/w '04 and '07 changed. Not sure how since they are basically the same (IIRC). But I do see the '07 dry is about 240# more. So maybe they beefed up the frame. Who knows? Anyhow,

'04 shows max tow capacity of 5380 #
'07 shows max tow capacity of 7120 #

However, the common mistake people make when calculating true towing capacity is those #s are bone dry, w/ nobody in the vehicle, and usually w/out the vehicle's (actual) installed options (i.e weight distributing hitch, sunroof, 3rd row seats, 3.73 axle needed to tow, etc.). Now, assume a full tank of gas (22.5 gal), some cargo (cooler, backpacks/briefcase, tool box, etc.) and 4 people (driver plus 3) in the SUV....

140#....... for 22.5 gal x 6.2#/gal
700#....... 4 People (175# ea on avg)
500#....... Misc cargo/stuff
25#......... drawbar
50#......... weight dist. hitch
1415#..... Sub Total

The 1415 # (basically the "cargo capacity") must be deducted from the max towing capacity to get the true weight for what can be towed. In this cases, it would be:

'04 - 3965# theoretically "can" be towed
'07 - 5705# theoretically "can" be towed

So back to the original proposition.... Can a V8 Explorer handle a 6000# boat/trailer (even if the 6000# is loaded w/ gas, stuff in boat, etc.). Answer is still no.

I'm not knocking the Explorer. They are very practical vehicles and I've owned one since they first came out in 1990 (1991MY, 1995, 1999, 2002, and 2004) and my daughter now drives my old '04. As I stated, they are 'predictable'. I know what they cost new and I know what I'll get on trade when I dump them in a few years after putting 75K on the clock. 1-2 set of tires, a bunch of oil changes, 2 sets of pads/rotors, and a couple air filters are all that's needed to run 'em.

That being said, I also know they are not the best tow vehicles for anything other than small toys like sea-doos, dirt bikes and snowmobiles. Aside from the theoretical weight ratings, throw in some hills/mountains (like we have in western PA) and you quickly find out the brakes are way undersized for the vehicle - especially towing something.

I don't have exact specs, but IIRC, the rotors on my '99 Boxster are the same diam. (about 12") if not bigger, and almost 2xs as thick as than those on the Explorer. Pads are almost double and braking area on the rotors is approx 50%+ more. The Boxster hits the scales at 2800#.... Explorer at 4500#. It's one thing to get something moving, but just as, if not more, important to make it stop. ;)

Burg,

I don't generally disagree with most of your post, but a couple of points...

Your "cargo" weight calculation is pretty excessive. 500lbs of cargo/misc? 1/4 of a ton in ice chests and picnic baskets? Maybe 200lbs, and if only two people that adds back 650lbs to the tow rating, which puts you back in the OK range to tow that boat. Also, remember that the tow rating manufacturers give is conservative. You vehicle doesn't magically blow up if you exceed the rating by 100lbs.

Also, the size of the brakes on the Boxster isn't so it can stop once, but rather so it can haul the car down under severe braking (racing) repeatedly without fading. Got to dissipate that heat, you know.

The Explorer is not being asked to do that, so it can do just fine without having massive brakes. It's brakes can survive a couple of panic stops without fading, and if you're towing, why would you be putting yourself in situations where you're repeatedly pounding the brakes? If your towing 6000lbs, you sure better be planning ahead, leaving stopping room, etc.

Besides, a 3 ton boat and trailer better have it's own set of brakes. If you're towing that without trailer brakes, you're taking a huge chance and probably breaking the law.

Finally, the trannies will last 150k or more. Heat kills transmissions. An external tranny cooler and fluid flushes every 20k or so does the trick.

Oh, and my last Explorer went 64k miles on it's original set of pads. A new set of pads and it was good to go on the original rotors. I've heard other Explorer drivers say that they go through brakes just like you describe... what are you guys doing to your brakes? :confused:

In the end, an Explorer's towing downfall isn't it's capacity, but rather the short wheelbase. That's why you can "feel" even lighter trailers back there, and that plagues all short wheelbase tow vehicles. If you're towing relatively short distances on flat land, that Explorer and trailer brakes will do 3 tons just fine. Long distances or mountainous terrain, I'd want an F250/350 sized vehicle.

JackG-
Not trying to start a debate about all the exact #s.....

Instead, I'm simply trying, for safety sake, to show how a lot of people who want to haul things get into trouble. The crux of the problem is not understanding where the #s come from and the capacity of the vehicles they are using. You'd be surprised at the # of people who just look a the hitch and say, "hey I've got a 6500# rated hitch so I must be able to pull that much". :confused:

Agree, 500# in misc sounds high but most often, mfgs (especially domestic) use the stripped down weight of the vehicle to calculate max towing capacity. So, when you add in third row seat, rear a/c, sunroof, dvd players, 3.73 axle, weight distr hitch, plus your true cargo (cooler, bags, picnic chairs, etc.) it can easily hit the 500# I sighted.

But, yes the wheel base is an inhibiting factor too.

As for brakes, I usually get about 40-45K out of a set of pads/rotors here (since they beefed 'em up from 1st gen Explorer). My terrain in western PA and WV where I do a lot of driving is substantially different than in SC. Not to mention climate and all the rock salt used in the winter pays a much heavier toll on my components vs yours. So it's really not anything different I'm doing than you, more environmental.

Again, I'm not bashing the Explorer as I currently still own the '04 and have had 4 previous ones.

What about a Range Rover or Range Rover Sport??