purchase choice - 2003 S or 2005 2.7?

[fatmike]

I paid $10K under your "target" for my 986S. 11K miles. Litronics, PSM, rain sensing wipers, rear compartment, windstops, etc. Flawless exterior, barely even a mark on the skid plate underneath...

Private seller w/tail-end of a warranty.

Keep looking.






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[racer_d]

Don't rush your purchase. Take your time. Test drive as many local ones as you can. Even if you don't intend on buying, it will allow you to filter out 1) Options you don't like or need - like maybe you really do like/want sport seats, or 18" wheels, or HIDs or... 2) Lets you see how Boxster owners maintain their cars (some do it well, some not so well) 3) Lets you see what wears out (interior wise) on the car 4) Will let you see how different models/options make the cars perform.

From recollection,
2005 2.7 has 240-245hp
2003 S has 258 hp

Thats only a 13-18hp difference.. Not much. Yes, the 3.2S should have more torque, which is nice, and it may weigh 100lbs or so less, but since you don't intend on tracking the car, the actual, "real world" performance difference may be immaterial.

You may also find, in your testing, that the interior of one model is preferred over the other which could sway your purchase.

As mentioned, yes, there are litterally hundreds of Boxsters on the market. Remember, more than 200,000 have been built and about 1/2 have come to the us. Sure, you may struggle to find a particular year, but the search can be nearly as much fun as the acqusition.

Be adventurous. Once you decide on the Model/year you want, look outside just South Florida, or Florida.. maybe the perfect one is sitting in Arizona, or Colorado. Traveling to buy a "new" car can be quite fun too.

Not to rain on all "550 Anniversary" fans, but it seems to me, over the years, the only Porsches that seem to "gain in value" in 20 years are those who have a genuine performance advantage vs the regular model.. and usually have a lighterweight (ie RSA, Clubsport, RS type models).

At this point in time, I would not buy ANY boxster with thoughts of value appreciation.

[mikefocke]

When I want to know what a reasonable price will be for a car (a question I get asked perhaps every other day as people read my guide to buying a Boxster) I immediately do the following...

I go to www.cars.com (only because it is both national and because it has a good search engine that allows me to locate only a specific model year).

I use their advanced search of used cars.

I pick my Porsche Boxster and model year and add that I want to see "all" miles from my zip code. I want to see the pricing all over the country to get the largest sample.

When I do that, I could get well over a thousand Boxsters of all model years or generally 100+ of any given year. So when I say there are hundreds available, there are many hundreds because cars.com is only one of the advertising sites, there must be a dozen others and, while there is some duplication, there are cars unique to each site.

So yes there are hundreds of Boxsters out there for sale right now.

I then throw out the 5 highest and the 5 lowest prices. That leaves me with a middle range...it omits the cars with the halo effect (its mine so it must be worth more), those where the dealer has too much invested in the car, and those with some history problem such that they are being dumped.

Once I figure out the mid range, I look at where a specific car is located. The prices posted are asking prices. But who pays asking price? You expect a bigger discount during a time when there will be no local buyers for convertibles because the weather is just too cold. But you always expect some discount...say 5 to 10% lower than asking. 15% in the winter unless that has already been priced in.

Porsche cars are ones most people own until their circumstances change. They get married, get divorced, have kids, lose their job, get deployed, etc. So there are always more cars for sale than other makes. Both of mine were 2-owner-before-me cars with the average ownership being 18 months. Both had been owned in multiple states. Both have been lots of fun and few problems.

One I bought in the first blush of spring. One I first saw when it was covered with snow and salt and I had to move the snow shovel to even sit in the passenger seat. Guess which one I got the better deal on.

I recommend stopping someone who owns one and asking them if they know of any cars or local sources. Look in the local classifieds or craigslist.org. Drive a few. Then decide.

[mikefocke]

There is a guy with a national reputation for his knowledge of Boxsters in Florida who is very wired into the scene and who has a business which, among other things, does an excellent PPI. He does everything from preparing a racing Boxster to producing products for Boxsters to conducting tech training sessions at national Boxster get-togethers.

Pedros PPIs

I highly recommend him based on reports from people who have used him. He is very well known on PPBB , another Boxster forum.

Get in touch, let him know what you are looking for and then use him for the PPI. He may know of a car that is just right. The site has a picture of his forms so you can see the type of inspections he does.

[Sloan]

TO: mikefocke. I appreciate your thoughtful responses, and I already did as you advised and expanded my search. I stand corrected, in that in a literal sense there are 'hundreds' of Boxsters for sale, however when I narrow back down to ones I would actually want, not so many. I think I have a decent idea of the price ranges - I've been searching for long enough now that I have a sense of what is 'right', the possible exception being the value of some of the more obscure options, and whether the 2004 550 special editions are worth the premium many of their sellers seem to think they should command.

Thank you as well for the information on Pedro's garage. He is very local to me, so that could be an excellent resource.

I am hoping to get out to look at at least two cars this coming weekend - the 2003 S with about 20k miles, 18" wheels w/ NEW tires, Tiptronic & Bose (but no PSM) that I mentioned a few posts ago, and a 2004 base with 8k, Bose, Tip. (again, no PSM) that looks absolutely spotless. Asking for the 2003 S is 32.5 (I got the sense they would take $30k) and asking for the 2004 is $28.6k. I will report back on my findings if I make it up to see both of them.

[mikefocke]

They add perhaps 10% of their value to the selling price so they are almost ignorable in the pricing equation, but they can be important in why you buy a car.

Here is what I'd like in my car:

Litronics because you need to see as far as you can at night
Porsche Stability Management (PSM) because I'm no longer a trained in emergency situations driver
Windscreen because it makes driving with the top down possible in a wider range of weather/speeds.
Heated seats for the same reason.
18" Carrera Wheels because I like them and they are light contributing to better handling via unsprung weight minimization
On Board Computer just because it breaks up the long trips to fiddle with it.
Cruise control so I can take long trips
Any Old Radio because Becker radios (including Bose) are so crappy I'd want to put in a good sound system with MP3/IPOD/BlueTooth (Not amped up, I value my ears, just good reception) and better speakers.
Storage box above engine so I could mount rear speakers there)
Michelin Rib tires (because they are great summer tires in all summer conditions)
In your location, a light color like silver or white with a light interior.
A top with a glass rear window.
My choice of transmission (I like the TIP but some don't).

Things I wouldn't value from Porsche:
GPS because theirs is crappy and updates aren't available any more.
Any radio gear because theirs is crappy.

[hjkim550]

Originally Posted by racer_d

Not to rain on all "550 Anniversary" fans, but it seems to me, over the years, the only Porsches that seem to "gain in value" in 20 years are those who have a genuine performance advantage vs the regular model.. and usually have a lighterweight (ie RSA, Clubsport, RS type models).

At this point in time, I would not buy ANY boxster with thoughts of value appreciation.

I agree racer_d,

I do not think that my 550 Anniversary will hold its value any more than any other 04 Boxster S. As you know, over a thousand of these were sold in the US in 2004, out of a production run of 1953. (not a very limited limited edition ) The difference between the stock Boxster S and the 550 Anniversary is so miniscule. 6 HP difference, spacers for a wider stance, short shifter and lowered ride height. The main reason why I bought mine was due to meticulous maintenance and right price.

Sloan..... looks like you are getting excellent cars for very nice prices. You know what I paid for mine. Make your purchase, get out there and post some pictures.

[mdex]

A little late to the thread, but some of my thoughts;

-You are allways best to buy the newest car you can afford in good condition.
-In the real world the base boxster (espesially the 987) is very quick and unless your a hp junkie you will not feel let down
-Porsche never releases a worse version of a car, and the 987 is a step forward over the 986 in all areas

-all that said I would never trade my 986 's' for a base 987, but I am a track junkie and have done a lot of work to my car....

Marc

[Sloan]

Thank you all for your input. Let me briefly respond to a few specific comments (in no particular order).

Super66 - I did not mean to say the G35 and 987 interiors looked the same, only that, to my eye, the 986 felt/looked more Porsche, the 987 trending more to the Japanese style - not that there is anything inherently wrong with that, just that my preference was perhaps more 'old school'.

mikefocke - you have excellent options, almost all of which I agree with & would like to have (though I've used the heated seats in my current car only a handful of times - remember I'm in South Florida - the land of eternal heat). I had not heard that the Boxster's Bose system is so poor - the one in my current car is good (not great, but quite good) and I've learned from my own personal experiences that if I can avoid having to install a bunch of aftermarket stereo equipment, I'd like to. Is mikefocke's rather negative opinion of the Bose system widely held? Anyone else want to weigh-in on that?

racer_d - I would not buy the Anniversary edition with any fantasy that it would actually appreciate in value, I do like them though (asthetics and standard 'options') and would hope that if I did get one, it might not depreciate as much as a 'standard' car over the 6-8 years I am likely to own it. That said, I have not found any on the market right now that are under consideration, and neither car I want to see this coming weekend is the special edition.

Finally, a clarification addressing the price comments - I am not seriously looking at any 986 S' for $35k or more (they are all less - like asking $32k and change) I just said I would spend that much or a bit more for my 'perfect' car, and I guess I meant a really exceptional 986 S or a 987, but as I mentioned, I've only seen one 987 S under $40k, and as of yesterday, a day after husker boxster gave me that lead, it's gone ...

[Pilot2519j]

I own a 2003S Box and by far is the sweetest driving machine I've ever had. Your query is very astute and reasonable. Similarities in body styling is a given and are looks are pretty much the same. The features that would sway me to the 2003S are the : the brakes, and the engine. In the S you get the brakes of the 911 which are fantastic and the engine is more powerful developing 260 hp. Being in the forum here has illustrated to me the cost of each hp you add to the car and it always seems to be outrageous. Therefore get the more powerful engine with the much better brakes.
Of course this goes without saying all things being equal. Cars of comparable wear and tear and similar condition. In any event good luck in your quest and welcome to our Group in the future.

[Hops]

Regarding the Bose system, I have one in my '05 987S. I am also a home theater junkie and have pretty nice gear in the basement. My goal in a car is to have a system that is good enough, and the Bose system is good enough.

As with most Bose products I've heard, there are some really bizarre gaps and hotspots in the frequency response. Specifically, the bass response of this system is odd. While the upper range and extreme lower range of the bass is a bit weak, there is a lower to mid part of the bass range that is overemphasized (driven by the subwoofer, I assume). I find that I have to mess with the bass level a lot (anywhere from +1 to +8) depending on the song.

Likewise, the treble comes off a bit hot in parts of the range, and it sounds a bit tinny. I rarely turn the treble level above zero and sometimes back it off a bit.

Those limitations aside, the system has a reasonably good front image (I fade to the rear by about three clicks for the best overall image) and it gets reasonably loud without distorting. On the whole it is better than the stock system in a few other cars I've owned, and given that I have the radio off over half the time anyway, it isn't worth a lot of money and tearing into the car to make it better.

[angman]

Welcome to the forum and I agree with Mikefocke on his options list as well. I would almost make litronics and PSM a must have though on my list as the litronics are an expensive retrofit and the PSM can't be added on after the purchase. When my frined bought his first Boxster S I told him to buy one with PSM. Unfortunatey he found a good deal on a mint car without the PSM option. Took him about a month before he totalled the car. Took him 3 weeks to buy another with the PSM option. These cars are good, and most likely performs beyond most of our abilities. Having the PSM can be a life and insurance saver.

I have a 97 and am very happy with its performance and reliability. I have driven many S models as well and usually find that in the city the performance difference is not that much. I must say that I do always "want" a S and people always ask me if I own a "S" though and it does bother me. I always want but I know I don't need. At least not at the price that it will cost me in order to sell my base model to upgrade to a newer model 986 S. I will hold on to my base 986 until I can afford to make the jump from it to a 987 S.

Good luck with the search

[Sloan]

Thanks Hops - that's just the kind of practical info. I was looking for. I'll also probably spend much of my time listening to the motor and not the stereo, so the 'good enough' Bose system will most likely suffice for me. I'll pay extra attention to it this weekend when I look at the 2003 S that has it (the guy with the 2004 will be in CA this weekend, so I'll have to wait to see that one).

Pilot - I'm a big fan of great brakes, and will confess to also loving the appearance of the drilled rotors and red calipers of the "S", so another point in the "S" column.

[mikefocke]

the resale value of the Speed Yellow color of the car you are purchasing. It isn't generally thought to add to the resale value though with the year you are buying (and say you keep it a couple of years) the target buyer for your SY car may just be the younger type who likes that color.

My preference for your location would be tan interior, white exterior. With Arctic Silver being the next choice.

Look at the currently popular colors for cars (survey came out about a week ago with white the most popular taking over from silver). When you buy an unpopular color, you pay at resale time both in the price you get for it and in difficulty of selling. The difference can be over 20% between white or silver and green. I forget where yellow is but that would be good to know as it is an unusual color and might be far down on the list.

[Sloan]

mike - Do you know something I don't about my plans for the yellow 2003 S I am planning to look at this weekend? I did not say 'buy' - the plan is just to look / drive. I am taking a friend who is a Porsche fanatic (on his third now) to keep me in check, and from rushing in to a purchase. (and also because even though he does not own a Boxster, I'm sure he'll still have a better idea of what to look for than I do).

I had a white BMW for many years, and I think that will be my last white car - I love silver (particularly the GT Silver Metallic of the 550 Spyder special edition), and its on par with the Speed Yellow as my first choice. While I appreciate that the color choice will likely effect resale value, I am not so concerned about that as 1) I will keep the car a long time, so making sure I like it is my biggest concern and, 2) since I'm buying used, any impact in the color on the price should be built-in to what I pay, right?

renzop - thanks for that lead - I think I saw that car listed, but did not give it a lot of thought because the price seemed a bit high for a non-S, and because it does not have Tiptronic which, while not essential, is preferred. I will take another look though.