Speeding Ticket - The Fight Begins - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

David N. · 03-15-2007, 09:00 PM

I got a ticket a while back and decided to fight it. I thought I would share my results for those who were interested. First, a little background...

It's 12:30 at night on a crispy Jan Saturday. I'm going south on the 405 towards the mountains to Santa Monica (it was freezing outside, I remember reading the temperature). Right after crossing the 101, I get slowed down with everyone else by a cop-car, he stopped all southbound traffic to move some suspects and a white SUV off the freeway. I was on the front row of the stopped traffic. We ended up waiting for 30 minutes for them to get the suspects off the road. There were only 2 cop cruisers there, and a couple cops, they had their hands full.

They finally let traffic begin to go, and I start up mildly spiritedly. I get up to speed, and perhaps a little extra (told the gf I was going to be home already, so I was really late). I eventually outran the other cars behind, and crossed over the top of the hill. I kinda felt really visible at that point, and thought it might be wise to be going the speed limit as I entered Santa Monica, so I slow down (there were one or two other cars ahead that had come on the freeway from entry-ramps). And just as I'm about going the speed I want to, I see another pair of headlights crest the hill at least half a mile away and barrel down towards me at crazy speed. Turns out it's a cop.

I was going the speed limit, so I just continue on my merry way. They get on my tail and pace me for a few minutes before they finally put their lights on. I was pretty sure they didn't have radar or laser on me tho, I didn't trip any trap. And they couldn't really pace me earlier accurately because they never really had line of sight or a consistent speed with me for any length of time. He gave me a ticket for going 90 in a 65, but no word on how they determined it, he was just guessing.

So I showed up to the prelim thing and requested a trial by declaration (write-in trial). I think the best strategy here is to fight it on the lack of evidence, he doesn't have anything substantial to prove my speed, and it was night so he doesn't even know what car he was after. I was going the speed limit when they saw me, they have no case. Plus, the ticket indicates I was speeding over a 5 mile stretch beginning at the 101 and ending at the street I eventually pulled over on, which is just silly.

I'll keep you guys updated on how things turn out. Any suggestions?

-David

Adam · 03-15-2007, 09:07 PM

It sounds like B.S. I don't blame you for fighting it. Can you ask a cop to see the speed on his gun when you get pulled over? I had a similar situation about a mo ago but he gave me a warning so I didn't fight it.

alikhan78 · 03-15-2007, 09:21 PM

Yeah that's messed up, definately fight it, hopefully he either won't show up or the judge will have to go with you for lack of proof. Same thing happened to a biker friend of mine, he fought it and the ticket was dropped. Good luck.

SD987 · 03-15-2007, 10:18 PM

I don't think trial-by-declaration will give you the outcome you desire. The trooper can put anything he wants in his written report which you never see and is not subject to cross-examination. On the basis of two written reports (guess which one receives subjectively heavier weighting), without a sympathetic presence to influence the outcome, it's too easy for the Judge to make his two-second ruling and fill the state coffers.

I'd wait for your guilty verdict and and then submit a form TR-220 for a new trial (which is just that...new). You can still go to traffic school should you get a second guilty verdict.

My thought on this situation, right or wrong, is if they're going to get my $250-400, then I'll make them earn it by taking up as much court and police witness time as possible to incur a financial wash or at best a loss for "the man". You've already taken a step in this direction as the trooper will have to submit a written report, which I'd imagine is about as much fun as it sounds.

David N. · 03-15-2007, 10:49 PM

I've heard good things about trial-by-declaration. The plus is, unlike asking for a court date, the police aren't paid overtime for writing a letter. Thus, a lot of trial-by-declaration requests go unanswered or unefforted. A friend of mine has gotten out of two tickets that way, and to be honest I'm not good in interrogation.

I made the actual stop as uneventful as I could. I just hope the cop doesn't feel like he needs to clamp down hard on this because it of the porsche-factor or whatever speed he thought I was really going (he gave me that whole 'I'm gonna be nice and only make it for 90' line).

Funny thing, after he almost comes off the road trying to catch up to me (doing 60 at the time), he complains not for my safety, but rather.. "Do you know we can get killed trying to chase guys like you at the speed we were?!".

I think there's a lesson there officer...

-David

7th gear · 03-19-2007, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David N.

I made the actual stop as uneventful as I could. I just hope the cop doesn't feel like he needs to clamp down hard on this because it of the porsche-factor or whatever speed he thought I was really going (he gave me that whole 'I'm gonna be nice and only make it for 90' line).....

actually, 'chips' did make nice and only make it 90. i remember reading somewhere that in california if you're caught doing over 90 you could be cited w/ driving w/ the intent to kill.

i'll admit, everytime i get in the 986, i'm frequently pushing > 100. when i do that, i do it by myself. if i've got space between traffic clusters, i capitalize. if i get a ticket, i'm due.

one other thing i heard is there are helicopters out there working to determine your speed. maybe the copter flagged you before and 'chips' caught you after. only way to really know about this is if somebody's got bud in highway patrol.

shaman1204 · 03-15-2007, 10:51 PM

I agree with SD987. Although I have not had a ticket where I live now, knock on wood, where I grew up (central Illinois), the troopers/cops scheduled their court dates on their days off for OT. If you are going to pay anyway, in any form, make it worth your tax dollars. Depending on your work schedule, fight it. At least you know where your tax dollars are going.

03-16-2007, 04:33 AM

David, so you were speeding and now you are just going to deny & fight it? I hope your strategy works. Just how fast were you going?

You were speeding. You knew it. You got caught. Why not just pay the ticket, and be done with it?

porschegeorg · 03-16-2007, 04:42 AM

On the few tickets I received, they always said how they determined my speed, either "radar" or "vascar". It was a required field to fill out on the ticket form.

I fought a ticket in court once, and lost, but they did reduce my fine to the equivalent of doing 60 in a 55 (and no points on my record).

Grizzly · 03-18-2007, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbth

Have to disagree again on this strategy.
What difference does it make that the driver knew he was speeding , the onus is on the government to prove it.
Your constitutional rights allow you to defend yourself and the burden of proof is on the prosecutor.If you or your counsel don't think they can meet the burden of proof , dont give in.
If pleading guilty and paying the fine is in YOUR OWN BEST INTEREST (financially and/or emotionally), go ahead.

Otherwise , you are innocent until they can prove you guilty.

It amazes me that those who are so vehement about the 2nd amendment , will reliquish the 5 & 6 amendment so quickly.

Never give up your rights.

I agree that the onus is on the Government to prove its case, but remember that whether done in writing or in person on the stand, David will swear under penalty of perjury, to tell the truth about the incident. Several posts in this thread have complained that law enforcement doesn't play fairly in its highway enforcement or during the adjudication process. Somehow, however, we think it's O.K. for David to not play by the rules. David has already told us that he was speeding. We know that to be the truth because he told us it was. In the 986 forum's version of court, the Highway Patrol must come to court, tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and accused gets to lie his ass off? Then the onus is on the Government to prove its case? Is that how it works? Apparently I must have slept through some of my classes.

Peer · 03-16-2007, 04:10 PM

I think it's quite naive to believe the Highway Patrol would start doing "better" things if the public wouldn't contend their traffic citations -- after all, they are "Highway Patrol" and an important revenue generator for the State.

-- peer

Rodger · 03-17-2007, 12:11 PM

Innocent until proven guilty....

I was bringing my Boxster through southern Utah last October and had a cop flash his lights at me, despite the fact I was doing 6-under the limit on a beautifully clear day. Some cops just assume because it's a Porsche that you must be speeding.

The burden of proof is on them, though....if neither the conditions of the roads or the circumstances involved allowed them to get an accurate radar reading, then they've got nothing. If they paced you while you were doing the speed limit, I see no fault there either.

Brucelee · 03-17-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnell!

Innocent until proven guilty....

I was bringing my Boxster through southern Utah last October and had a cop flash his lights at me, despite the fact I was doing 6-under the limit on a beautifully clear day. Some cops just assume because it's a Porsche that you must be speeding.

The burden of proof is on them, though....if neither the conditions of the roads or the circumstances involved allowed them to get an accurate radar reading, then they've got nothing. If they paced you while you were doing the speed limit, I see no fault there either.

The guy knows he was speeding. This does not seem to be in doubt. Fault is not in dispute here as far as I can see.

Adam · 03-17-2007, 01:52 PM

I guess SD987 is in the wrong place if he was looking for a sympathetic shoulder to cry on.

SD987 · 03-17-2007, 04:41 PM

Adam, that made about as much sense as your previous 1,839 posts...I wasn't the one who got the ticket or was looking for sympathy.

I swear, if half the forum learned how to read as well as they type we could do great things.

And if you're still traumatized about me stereotyping your dad as a gold-chain wearing wife-beater in that other thread, then I apologize. Give it some time, you'll get over it.

Grizz, no problem, we're good.