Speeding Ticket - The Fight Begins

[SD987]

I don't think trial-by-declaration will give you the outcome you desire. The trooper can put anything he wants in his written report which you never see and is not subject to cross-examination. On the basis of two written reports (guess which one receives subjectively heavier weighting), without a sympathetic presence to influence the outcome, it's too easy for the Judge to make his two-second ruling and fill the state coffers.

I'd wait for your guilty verdict and and then submit a form TR-220 for a new trial (which is just that...new). You can still go to traffic school should you get a second guilty verdict.

My thought on this situation, right or wrong, is if they're going to get my $250-400, then I'll make them earn it by taking up as much court and police witness time as possible to incur a financial wash or at best a loss for "the man". You've already taken a step in this direction as the trooper will have to submit a written report, which I'd imagine is about as much fun as it sounds.

[David N.]

I've heard good things about trial-by-declaration. The plus is, unlike asking for a court date, the police aren't paid overtime for writing a letter. Thus, a lot of trial-by-declaration requests go unanswered or unefforted. A friend of mine has gotten out of two tickets that way, and to be honest I'm not good in interrogation.

I made the actual stop as uneventful as I could. I just hope the cop doesn't feel like he needs to clamp down hard on this because it of the porsche-factor or whatever speed he thought I was really going (he gave me that whole 'I'm gonna be nice and only make it for 90' line).

Funny thing, after he almost comes off the road trying to catch up to me (doing 60 at the time), he complains not for my safety, but rather.. "Do you know we can get killed trying to chase guys like you at the speed we were?!".

I think there's a lesson there officer...

-David

[7th gear]

Originally Posted by David N.

I made the actual stop as uneventful as I could. I just hope the cop doesn't feel like he needs to clamp down hard on this because it of the porsche-factor or whatever speed he thought I was really going (he gave me that whole 'I'm gonna be nice and only make it for 90' line).....

actually, 'chips' did make nice and only make it 90. i remember reading somewhere that in california if you're caught doing over 90 you could be cited w/ driving w/ the intent to kill.

i'll admit, everytime i get in the 986, i'm frequently pushing > 100. when i do that, i do it by myself. if i've got space between traffic clusters, i capitalize. if i get a ticket, i'm due.

one other thing i heard is there are helicopters out there working to determine your speed. maybe the copter flagged you before and 'chips' caught you after. only way to really know about this is if somebody's got bud in highway patrol.

[shaman1204]

I agree with SD987. Although I have not had a ticket where I live now, knock on wood, where I grew up (central Illinois), the troopers/cops scheduled their court dates on their days off for OT. If you are going to pay anyway, in any form, make it worth your tax dollars. Depending on your work schedule, fight it. At least you know where your tax dollars are going.

David, so you were speeding and now you are just going to deny & fight it? I hope your strategy works. Just how fast were you going?

You were speeding. You knew it. You got caught. Why not just pay the ticket, and be done with it?

[porschegeorg]

On the few tickets I received, they always said how they determined my speed, either "radar" or "vascar". It was a required field to fill out on the ticket form.

I fought a ticket in court once, and lost, but they did reduce my fine to the equivalent of doing 60 in a 55 (and no points on my record).

[David N.]

Hmm bmussatti, I think of it like this.

LAPD: "We got you. We saw a puff of smoke, and we got you. We saw you fire your fully registered and licensed weapon, so we're hauling you in for murder. We don't know if you actually shot someone, but hey it's a fancy gun, so we're gonna say you shot a couple people, why not right? We can't prove anything, we don't have a body, but you know you shot someone, that's enough for us."

Imagine if everything worked like this..

-David

Originally Posted by David N.

Hmm bmussatti, I think of it like this.

LAPD: "We got you. We saw a puff of smoke, and we got you. We saw you fire your fully registered and licensed weapon, so we're hauling you in for murder. We don't know if you actually shot someone, but hey it's a fancy gun, so we're gonna say you shot a couple people, why not right? We can't prove anything, we don't have a body, but you know you shot someone, that's enough for us."

Imagine if everything worked like this..

-David

You did not answer my questions.

Pay the fine, and move on. You were speeding...right. Ya got caught. Sorry.

[Grizzly]

More than likely they paced you with a cruiser with a calibrated speedometer. You can fight the ticket, but they'll probably win the case.

I really like SD987's approach of wasting as much Police Officer time as possible to get even. The only thing that I would add is ********************ing about slow Police response the next time your family needs help, caused by a whole city full of self rightous jerkoffs doing the same thing.

[CJ_Boxster]

ohh....... quite now...... ***waiting for chair to be randomly thrown so fight can break out***

[SD987]

If my refusal to submit feebly to the stacked deck of highway enforcement makes me a self-righteous jerkoff, then so be it.

In the meantime I'm trying to mentally reconcile your concern for your brethren in law enforcement while simultaneously using another thread to promote the arming of the general populace with weapons that are well beyond what could be considered the need for self-protection. I'm sure that gun-toting civilians make a cops life easier.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by dbth

Have to disagree again on this strategy.
What difference does it make that the driver knew he was speeding , the onus is on the government to prove it.
Your constitutional rights allow you to defend yourself and the burden of proof is on the prosecutor.If you or your counsel don't think they can meet the burden of proof , dont give in.
If pleading guilty and paying the fine is in YOUR OWN BEST INTEREST (financially and/or emotionally), go ahead.

Otherwise , you are innocent until they can prove you guilty.

It amazes me that those who are so vehement about the 2nd amendment , will reliquish the 5 & 6 amendment so quickly.

Never give up your rights.

I agree that the onus is on the Government to prove its case, but remember that whether done in writing or in person on the stand, David will swear under penalty of perjury, to tell the truth about the incident. Several posts in this thread have complained that law enforcement doesn't play fairly in its highway enforcement or during the adjudication process. Somehow, however, we think it's O.K. for David to not play by the rules. David has already told us that he was speeding. We know that to be the truth because he told us it was. In the 986 forum's version of court, the Highway Patrol must come to court, tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and accused gets to lie his ass off? Then the onus is on the Government to prove its case? Is that how it works? Apparently I must have slept through some of my classes.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

I agree that the onus is on the Government to prove its case, but remember that whether done in writing or in person on the stand, David will swear under penalty of perjury, to tell the truth about the incident. Several posts in this thread have complained that law enforcement doesn't play fairly in its highway enforcement or during the adjudication process. Somehow, however, we think it's O.K. for David to not play by the rules. David has already told us that he was speeding. We know that to be the truth because he told us it was. In the 986 forum's version of court, the Highway Patrol must come to court, tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and accused gets to lie his ass off? Then the onus is on the Government to prove its case? Is that how it works? Apparently I must have slept through some of my classes.

Very well said, Griz!

My last speeding ticket was in 1971. I was speeding, I knew it and deserved the ticket. It never ocurred to me that I should fight it, in that I KNEW I was guilty!

It did not even ocur to me that I could beat the rap because MAYBE the cop wasn't PERFECT in the way that he caught me. He caught me AND I was speeding. I paid the ticket and moved on.

Candidly, had I decided to fight that ticket, I would have been a hypocrite. If you believe in the rule of law, don't cry if it bites you in the butt.

Human's are fascinating, they can rationalize anything if it is what they want to believe.

Frankly, I am so tired of these ticket threads.

My advice, if you were speeding, don't post here asking for information about how to beat the ticket. I waill simply delete the thread.

Now, if you were NOT speeding (and you know who you are!) then, ask for help in proving your case. That is an ethical and principled way to act.

To you others, hire a shark lawyer, pay the fees and leave us alone.

[Brucelee]

Oh, one last point.

Well, you see there was this pedophile who had raped and murdered a young child.

He frequented a Porche forum and he posted, stated that he DID commit the crime but he was pretty sure the cops did not do his arrest in just the pefect/legal way.

He was asking the readers of the forum for some help in how to beat this rap. After all, his RIGHTS maybe had been violated and he thought the readers of the forum would all gather around and help him fight the good fight.



Well, .................................................?

[B&TRepair]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

Oh, one last point.

Well, you see there was this pedophile who had raped and murdered a young child.

He frequented a Porche forum and he posted, stated that he DID commit the crime but he was pretty sure the cops did not do his arrest in just the pefect/legal way.

He was asking the readers of the forum for some help in how to beat this rap. After all, his RIGHTS maybe had been violated and he thought the readers of the forum would all gather around and help him fight the good fight.



Well, .................................................?

The crimes are truly unequal so the comparison is moot. Of the same officers who wrote citations that day, some went home at warp nine with a few belts in them to boot. It's the unspoken job perk known as the brass pass. The best move is to either hire a lawyer or go to court, be very polite and don't lie. Chances are good it may be slightly reduced, especially if your record shows no chronic behavior.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by dbth

#1-You cannot commit perjury unless you testify.
The 5th amendment protects oneself from self incrimination.
The accused does not have to testify , only plead not guilty.
If the state can't prove the charge , he is not guilty.

O.K., let me get this straight. You're saying that David should go to traffic court, allow the prosecution to put on the Government's case, and then sit there like a mushroom so that he doesn't perjure himself?

Yeah, David, do that. Let me know how it works out for you.

Or better yet, actually plead the fifth in traffic court. Classic.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

O.K., let me get this straight. You're saying that David should go to traffic court, allow the prosecution to put on the Government's case, and then sit there like a mushroom so that he doesn't perjure himself?

Yeah, David, do that. Let me know how it works out for you.

Or better yet, actually plead the fifth in traffic court. Classic.

Perhaps David should hire DB to represent him in his case.

Then, perhaps JUSTICE will be served.

[David N.]

Let's be civil everyone, this is only a discussion. I'm accused of breaking one rule in a set of rules. Another rule exists on how broken rules are properly detected, I believe that rule was broken as well by the cop. It just so happens an additional rule in this set of rules allows me to fight my penalty because of something like that. I think the outcome of this fight would be informative to people here, that's why I posted this topic.

I'm not claiming innocence, I'm claiming due process. I'm not trying to absolve myself of the murder of a child, I'm trying to get out of paying my insurance company excess cash for being accused of a moving violation without enough evidence. That and that alone.

A spade is just a spade.

-David

[trube78]

not to commit felonies. I see a basic problem with being responsible and understanding that acting irresponsibly will result in someone holding you accountable. In fact, I see many parents do not teach their children about responsible behavior. (I work at a University)

I hate these speeding posts and wish they would be removed. If you decide to speed and get caught. Man up and be responsible for your behavior. You were speeding and he caught you. I guess it is easier for some folks to look at their faults in the mirror than others.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by dbth

I give up.
Surrender your rights.

But keep your GUN and 2nd ammendment.

Peace out.

You of course, fail to see the point.

This guy has legal rights and he is free to exercise them.

He can ask for help from us to dodge what he did.

We are free to advise him to suck it up and do the time.

This has nothing to do with second amendment rights.

If you think so, well, you are free to do that to.