timing chain like noise centered at oil crankcase - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

jbox53 · 08-21-2009, 02:34 PM

Need a little help. I have a 1999 boxster with 80K miles (bought it used about a year ago). I just got a noticable timing chain like noise at idle and increases when accelerating. I used the old wooden pole trick to listen where it appears to originate and it centered at the oil plug. The noise reminds me of a timing chain failure I had once with a Toyota Celica I used to own. It eventually cracked the timing case cover.
I don't have much spare time to tackle it on my own and may have to bring it to (excuse me) 'Porsche' before something bad happens.
The car has been running decently since I bought it and had to only replace the coolant tank in the trunk. I think my luck is running out. Has anyone experience this?

rob76turbo · 08-21-2009, 03:08 PM

Cracked oil pick-up tube? Had similar noise on my 968 and that was the culprit.

jhandy · 08-21-2009, 03:30 PM

If possiable I would send it to Jake in cleveland. He is only an hour from you and his rates are cheaper than the dealer. Better work as well in my opinion.

Jake Raby · 08-21-2009, 06:55 PM

Can you post an audio file of this??What oil are you running? When did this pop up? Was it a slow progression, or did it just happen suddenly?

08-22-2009, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhandy

If possiable I would send it to Jake in cleveland. He is only an hour from you and his rates are cheaper than the dealer. Better work as well in my opinion.

This is the best advice, and it's a scenic drive.

jbox53 · 08-22-2009, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Can you post an audio file of this??What oil are you running? When did this pop up? Was it a slow progression, or did it just happen suddenly?

Jake,
This happened suddenly. Sort of a deep metallic chain (clock ticking) when idling. Will get loud while driving. Subsides when engine not under load. (I'm not driving it anymore). I'm using Mobil 1 Syn 5W-30. The vehicle has had white smoke every once in a while on start up (normal I was told) but now appears to smoke more frequently. I'll send a audio file today.
Do you have a contact phone number? Like to discuss options with you.

jbox53 · 08-22-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Can you post an audio file of this??What oil are you running? When did this pop up? Was it a slow progression, or did it just happen suddenly?

Here's the video/audio file on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4uLgTK-PKU

cnavarro · 08-22-2009, 01:15 PM

I wouldn't run it any more after listening to the video. Needs to be checked out first.

Jake Raby · 08-22-2009, 03:46 PM

Ouch!!
The file isn't distinct enough for a remote diagnosis, but it certainly doesn't sound good.
Have you recently serviced the engine and used the Mobil oil that you mentioned in your post??

Contact us at info@flat6innovations.com and we'll be glad to work with you..

I definitely would not run that engine any more at all, that could be the IMS in early stages of failure, the whirring sound is something I am very concerned about

jbox53 · 08-22-2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Ouch!!
The file isn't distinct enough for a remote diagnosis, but it certainly doesn't sound good.
Have you recently serviced the engine and used the Mobil oil that you mentioned in your post??

Contact us at info@flat6innovations.com and we'll be glad to work with you..

I definitely would not run that engine any more at all, that could be the IMS in early stages of failure, the whirring sound is something I am very concerned about

I know. Yes, as a matter of fact I changed my oil about two weeks ago. You have me wondering about the lite weight oil in the summertime but it seems like something broke/snapped like a cam chain tensioner....It's my primary vehicle and I drive it normally. I probably will attempt one more run to the dealer since they're 2 miles away as opposed to your place up north. I'm afraid I'll be spending alot of time waiting for a tow truck. Although I would enjoy the ride as Demara stated I don't think I'll make it. I'm thinking like cnavarro, ,maybe I can salvage this vehicle. Who knows maybe Porshe will quote me an amount that will be competive with obtaining a replacement engine.
The vehicle looks nice and shiny too bad it's not reliable.
Being a fairly new Porsche owner my

Jake Raby · 08-22-2009, 04:56 PM

Do not drive that car 2 miles!! Trying to limp the car anywhere could lead to a catastrophic failure, I see this happen ALL THE TIME!

The Dealer probably doesn't know what this is.. Their only recommendations for you will be engine replacement, more than likely, because they are parts changers...

It'll cost you more at the Dealer and you'll get less service... Dealership techs call me for information about the internals of these engines quite frequently because most have never accomplished more than resealing of cam covers...

I can have a tow truck dispatched to your location within minutes and they don't charge Atlanta prices.. People send me cars from all the way across the country, because no one locally understands their engine... You are local and you should take advantage of my location. Repairs and heavy internal maintenance that others have no experience with are my specialty.

What ever you do, DO NOT drive or run that car any longer!! Doing so, and trying to save a towing fee could compromise the entire engine. You MUST work from worst case scenario and nothing else.. Right now if the IMS bearing or a tensioner has gone bad we can save the engine, after a full blown failure we can't.

I was not asking about the oil due to the weight, I recently have found certain characteristics with a certain oil that has me very concerned in two different engines.

jbox53 · 08-22-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Do not drive that car 2 miles!! Trying to limp the car anywhere could lead to a catastrophic failure, I see this happen ALL THE TIME!

The Dealer probably doesn't know what this is.. Their only recommendations for you will be engine replacement, more than likely, because they are parts changers...

It'll cost you more at the Dealer and you'll get less service... Dealership techs call me for information about the internals of these engines quite frequently because most have never accomplished more than resealing of cam covers...

I can have a tow truck dispatched to your location within minutes and they don't charge Atlanta prices.. People send me cars from all the way across the country, because no one locally understands their engine... You are local and you should take advantage of my location. Repairs and heavy internal maintenance that others have no experience with are my specialty.

What ever you do, DO NOT drive or run that car any longer!! Doing so, and trying to save a towing fee could compromise the entire engine. You MUST work from worst case scenario and nothing else.. Right now if the IMS bearing or a tensioner has gone bad we can save the engine, after a full blown failure we can't.

I was not asking about the oil due to the weight, I recently have found certain characteristics with a certain oil that has me very concerned in two different engines.

Ok I'm convinced. please call me for tow to your place.

Jake Raby · 08-22-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Ok I'm convinced. please call me for tow to your place.
770-845-5895.

I didn't mean to come across as pushy... I'll apologize in advance for my intensity :-)

I'll call you first thing Monday morning, or maybe tomorrow evening if I complete my weekend project early enough.

I look forward to assisting you.

jbox53 · 08-22-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

I didn't mean to come across as pushy... I'll apologize in advance for my intensity :-)

I'll call you first thing Monday morning, or maybe tomorrow evening if I complete my weekend project early enough.

I look forward to assisting you.

No apology needed. I've dealt with this particular Porsche dealer before and have been slammed with bills and am not impressed with their service. The noise sounds serious to me and you pinged my technical conscience to urgency. You seem to have quite a following on the forum so I'll give you a try. Hey, I'm out of options at this point.
the sooner the better, tomorrow works for me if
thanks for the concern.

Jake Raby · 08-22-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbox53

No apology needed. I've dealt with this particular Porsche dealer before and have been slammed with bills and am not impressed with their service. The noise sounds serious to me and you pinged my technical conscience to urgency. You seem to have quite a following on the forum so I'll give you a try. Hey, I'm out of options at this point.
the sooner the better, tomorrow works for me if
thanks for the concern.

I know the Dealer you are referring to...

Jhandy's car is here now, he shipped it here from Texas, so people do believe in us and what we have done with these engines..

We'll treat you right, we do things the old fashioned way :-)

Jake Raby · 08-24-2009, 10:31 AM

The Boxster arrived at my facility a few minutes ago.. I just finished a piston installation procedure, so I am headed downstairs now to get it onto the lift and diagnose the sound.. I fired it up very briefly and heard the noise straight away. Now comes the fun part.

jbox53 · 08-24-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

The Boxster arrived at my facility a few minutes ago.. I just finished a piston installation procedure, so I am headed downstairs now to get it onto the lift and diagnose the sound.. I fired it up very briefly and heard the noise straight away. Now comes the fun part.

Good to hear.....or maybe not. Hopefully damage will be at minimum.
By the way, the Griffin driver was a pleasure to deal with, as you stated.
I'll keep my fingers crossed. thanks.

Jake Raby · 08-24-2009, 01:40 PM

Glad you had a good experience with the tow company, they have been towing cars for me for years...

I have a good idea the noise is the IMS bearing, but I am awaiting a second opinion from a bearing test device that we have at our disposal. If the noise isn't the IMS it may be the IMS drive chain, something that can't be remedied without a full tear down. It could also be the oil pump as it is also driven from the IMS, opposite the bearing end.

The jury is still out, I'll sleep on it and get back with you in the morning.. The good news is it hasn't had a catastrophic failure, so I can repair it.

yimmy149 · 08-24-2009, 01:53 PM

While my heart goes out to jbox's wallet, I must say, this is the most exciting thread I've seen on 986forum!

Jake Raby · 08-24-2009, 02:22 PM

I have a definitive on the root of the sound.. It's multi-faceted.

You have two things going on:

- Bad water pump bearing
- IMS bearing is beginning to go south

The water pump is the rumbling part of the sound, the IMS is the whirring sound.. I disconnected the serpentine belt after I used a stethoscope to listen to the water pump housing and hearing a rumbling sound... With that disconnected the rumble was gone but the whirring sound was more defined.

The IMS flange is leaking also.. You also have a pair of leaky cam covers and a few cracked coil packs along with at least one bad chain tensioner.

I'll go a little further in the morning, but a few hours this afternoon has proven that it's repairable.