timing chain like noise centered at oil crankcase - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

jbox53 · 08-21-2009, 02:34 PM

Need a little help. I have a 1999 boxster with 80K miles (bought it used about a year ago). I just got a noticable timing chain like noise at idle and increases when accelerating. I used the old wooden pole trick to listen where it appears to originate and it centered at the oil plug. The noise reminds me of a timing chain failure I had once with a Toyota Celica I used to own. It eventually cracked the timing case cover.
I don't have much spare time to tackle it on my own and may have to bring it to (excuse me) 'Porsche' before something bad happens.
The car has been running decently since I bought it and had to only replace the coolant tank in the trunk. I think my luck is running out. Has anyone experience this?

rob76turbo · 08-21-2009, 03:08 PM

Cracked oil pick-up tube? Had similar noise on my 968 and that was the culprit.

jhandy · 08-21-2009, 03:30 PM

If possiable I would send it to Jake in cleveland. He is only an hour from you and his rates are cheaper than the dealer. Better work as well in my opinion.

08-22-2009, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhandy

If possiable I would send it to Jake in cleveland. He is only an hour from you and his rates are cheaper than the dealer. Better work as well in my opinion.

This is the best advice, and it's a scenic drive.

Jake Raby · 08-24-2009, 05:46 PM

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I like the prognosis so far! Good news Jake. great detective work. Yimmy, I'm glad you're excited. Hopefully you're not one of those folks that like to watch horror movies with a bag of popcorn at your side

I grew up breaking parts and engines for fun. I had my own junkyard at age 18 with 80 VWs and a few Porsches.. I have an appreciation for broken parts that most can't imagine, so thats why the M96 engine fits my personality so well.

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Technically, solving a problem systematically is an engineers' dream, and Jake , you appear to be in your element. I looking forward to the end of the story.

Its been easy so far.. Not even a challenge, tomorrow I'll localize some other tests and see what happens.

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I'm really grateful we have someone like Jake on this board. When my engine died, Jake spent 30 minutes on the phone walking me thru options, and trying to get a feel for what would be best for me.

If I never said it, thanks Jake.

No problem, I hope I was of some assistance.. Most of those that I talk to don't buy anything from us, because our options are not cheap.. The only thing more expensive than going my way is going any other way twice and still being disgusted.

Lots more to be unveiled soon.. If what I have shared so far has ruffled your feathers, just wait till I get a chance to work on my website.

Jake Raby · 09-07-2009, 11:39 AM

Update:

jbox53 picked his car up today...

His IMS retrofit is doing great, along with a new water pump..

Another engine successfully retrofitted and saved from the scrap pile!!

Here is Jim's Boxster receiving it's "IMS Test"

derb · 09-07-2009, 12:34 PM

Jake, nice work! Glad jbox53 gets to continue to enjoy his Boxster.
Always nice to read about a happy ending.

And Jake, please post those R&D findings soon- we can't take the suspense much longer.

Jake Raby · 08-21-2009, 06:55 PM

Can you post an audio file of this??What oil are you running? When did this pop up? Was it a slow progression, or did it just happen suddenly?

jbox53 · 08-22-2009, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Can you post an audio file of this??What oil are you running? When did this pop up? Was it a slow progression, or did it just happen suddenly?

Jake,
This happened suddenly. Sort of a deep metallic chain (clock ticking) when idling. Will get loud while driving. Subsides when engine not under load. (I'm not driving it anymore). I'm using Mobil 1 Syn 5W-30. The vehicle has had white smoke every once in a while on start up (normal I was told) but now appears to smoke more frequently. I'll send a audio file today.
Do you have a contact phone number? Like to discuss options with you.

Jake Raby · 09-07-2009, 05:06 PM

I'll post some pics of the IMS bearing tomorrow.. It was loose inside the shaft and the noise was coming from that more than actual roller/ race wear..

First time I had seen this.. basically the internal snap ring was the only thing holding it in place..

jbox53 · 09-08-2009, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

I'll post some pics of the IMS bearing tomorrow.. It was loose inside the shaft and the noise was coming from that more than actual roller/ race wear..

First time I had seen this.. basically the internal snap ring was the only thing holding it in place..

Jake, thanks for keeping me out of the tank with my 80K mile boxster. And thank you for the tour and explaining (illustrating) the work you did.
For everyone out there, Jake found the following things needing repair for my vehicle.
1. IMS bearing (replaced)
2. Shot clutch, plate and bearing (replaced)
3. worn lifters (will fix later)
4. worn time chain tensioners (will fix later)
5. Bad MAF sensor (to be fixed)
6. crack front motor mount (to be fixed)
7. crack ignition coils (to be fixed)
8. shot water pump (replaced)

I am personally going to attack the mount and MAF sensor next.

Jake, it was obvious you’re passionate about your work. I used to work with an old auto mechanic while I was attending school and he use to tell me that it was such a pleasure to talk to someone who really knew their stuff, and the pleasure was all mine.

I was fortunate that the water pump noise emanated to the crank case wall alterting me that someting bad was happening. Pure luck I contacted you. I will have to watch my "patient" more closely in the future and I know where the doctor's office is....

For all of you Boxster owners out there, Jake's the man.

Jake Raby · 09-08-2009, 07:25 AM

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Jake, it was obvious you’re passionate about your work. I used to work with an old auto mechanic while I was attending school and he use to tell me that it was such a pleasure to talk to someone who really knew their stuff, and the pleasure was all mine.

Thanks.. It was great meeting you, and Jill.

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I was fortunate that the water pump noise emanated to the crank case wall alterting me that someting bad was happening. Pure luck I contacted you. I will have to watch my "patient" more closely in the future and I know where the doctor's office is....

You were VERY lucky! This is the first time I have seen a bearing make noise in this manner.. Everything happens for a reason, and that water pump bearing going out was like a small heart attack that saved a much bigger one.

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For all of you Boxster owners out there, Jake's the man.

....Don't forget about the 996 and Cayman owners :-)

Thanks for being great to work with, patient and for being a god communicator.

jbox53 · 08-22-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Can you post an audio file of this??What oil are you running? When did this pop up? Was it a slow progression, or did it just happen suddenly?

Here's the video/audio file on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4uLgTK-PKU

cnavarro · 08-22-2009, 01:15 PM

I wouldn't run it any more after listening to the video. Needs to be checked out first.

Jake Raby · 08-22-2009, 03:46 PM

Ouch!!
The file isn't distinct enough for a remote diagnosis, but it certainly doesn't sound good.
Have you recently serviced the engine and used the Mobil oil that you mentioned in your post??

Contact us at info@flat6innovations.com and we'll be glad to work with you..

I definitely would not run that engine any more at all, that could be the IMS in early stages of failure, the whirring sound is something I am very concerned about

jbox53 · 08-22-2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Ouch!!
The file isn't distinct enough for a remote diagnosis, but it certainly doesn't sound good.
Have you recently serviced the engine and used the Mobil oil that you mentioned in your post??

Contact us at info@flat6innovations.com and we'll be glad to work with you..

I definitely would not run that engine any more at all, that could be the IMS in early stages of failure, the whirring sound is something I am very concerned about

I know. Yes, as a matter of fact I changed my oil about two weeks ago. You have me wondering about the lite weight oil in the summertime but it seems like something broke/snapped like a cam chain tensioner....It's my primary vehicle and I drive it normally. I probably will attempt one more run to the dealer since they're 2 miles away as opposed to your place up north. I'm afraid I'll be spending alot of time waiting for a tow truck. Although I would enjoy the ride as Demara stated I don't think I'll make it. I'm thinking like cnavarro, ,maybe I can salvage this vehicle. Who knows maybe Porshe will quote me an amount that will be competive with obtaining a replacement engine.
The vehicle looks nice and shiny too bad it's not reliable.
Being a fairly new Porsche owner my

Jake Raby · 08-22-2009, 04:56 PM

Do not drive that car 2 miles!! Trying to limp the car anywhere could lead to a catastrophic failure, I see this happen ALL THE TIME!

The Dealer probably doesn't know what this is.. Their only recommendations for you will be engine replacement, more than likely, because they are parts changers...

It'll cost you more at the Dealer and you'll get less service... Dealership techs call me for information about the internals of these engines quite frequently because most have never accomplished more than resealing of cam covers...

I can have a tow truck dispatched to your location within minutes and they don't charge Atlanta prices.. People send me cars from all the way across the country, because no one locally understands their engine... You are local and you should take advantage of my location. Repairs and heavy internal maintenance that others have no experience with are my specialty.

What ever you do, DO NOT drive or run that car any longer!! Doing so, and trying to save a towing fee could compromise the entire engine. You MUST work from worst case scenario and nothing else.. Right now if the IMS bearing or a tensioner has gone bad we can save the engine, after a full blown failure we can't.

I was not asking about the oil due to the weight, I recently have found certain characteristics with a certain oil that has me very concerned in two different engines.

jbox53 · 08-22-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Do not drive that car 2 miles!! Trying to limp the car anywhere could lead to a catastrophic failure, I see this happen ALL THE TIME!

The Dealer probably doesn't know what this is.. Their only recommendations for you will be engine replacement, more than likely, because they are parts changers...

It'll cost you more at the Dealer and you'll get less service... Dealership techs call me for information about the internals of these engines quite frequently because most have never accomplished more than resealing of cam covers...

I can have a tow truck dispatched to your location within minutes and they don't charge Atlanta prices.. People send me cars from all the way across the country, because no one locally understands their engine... You are local and you should take advantage of my location. Repairs and heavy internal maintenance that others have no experience with are my specialty.

What ever you do, DO NOT drive or run that car any longer!! Doing so, and trying to save a towing fee could compromise the entire engine. You MUST work from worst case scenario and nothing else.. Right now if the IMS bearing or a tensioner has gone bad we can save the engine, after a full blown failure we can't.

I was not asking about the oil due to the weight, I recently have found certain characteristics with a certain oil that has me very concerned in two different engines.

Ok I'm convinced. please call me for tow to your place.

Jake Raby · 08-22-2009, 05:46 PM

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Ok I'm convinced. please call me for tow to your place.
770-845-5895.

I didn't mean to come across as pushy... I'll apologize in advance for my intensity :-)

I'll call you first thing Monday morning, or maybe tomorrow evening if I complete my weekend project early enough.

I look forward to assisting you.

jbox53 · 08-22-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

I didn't mean to come across as pushy... I'll apologize in advance for my intensity :-)

I'll call you first thing Monday morning, or maybe tomorrow evening if I complete my weekend project early enough.

I look forward to assisting you.

No apology needed. I've dealt with this particular Porsche dealer before and have been slammed with bills and am not impressed with their service. The noise sounds serious to me and you pinged my technical conscience to urgency. You seem to have quite a following on the forum so I'll give you a try. Hey, I'm out of options at this point.
the sooner the better, tomorrow works for me if
thanks for the concern.