10-31-2024, 01:17 AM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: LB, Germany
Posts: 1,507
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Hope you'll find all metal pieces.
Would be bad if you rebuild the engine and something is left in there that causes future damages.
The chain guides look pretty good. Seems the mileage of the car is correct.
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11-02-2024, 09:29 AM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: North Cali
Posts: 816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallblock454
Hope you'll find all metal pieces.
Would be bad if you rebuild the engine and something is left in there that causes future damages.
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For sure, that would be an absolute disaster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallblock454
The chain guides look pretty good. Seems the mileage of the car is correct.
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Yeah, most parts show really low wear representing the low mileage, while others are kind of puzzling and I just don't get it. Look at the main bearings for instance.
The crank seems fine, but the bearings show quite a bit of wear. However, the thrust bearing washers have no wear, underlining the low mileage.
Especially around the small windows where the oil gets in there's a lot of wear, suggesting there was something in the oil and made most of the damage here. What I don't understand is, how can the debris get through the filter?
Also, it seems most of the damage can't be accounted for the chain snap, I think this wear had happened before... Just in comparison, in the other engine I rebuilt there was literally no wear on the bearing shells, at 100.000 miles. This engine had 22.000 in it...
This car was a garage queen. Since it is 22 years old, on average it ran 1000 miles/year, meaning probably there were several month-long gaps when it was not running at all, which is not really healthy for the bearings for obvious reasons. Still, hard to believe that this alone could have caused this much wear.
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11-03-2024, 02:25 AM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: LB, Germany
Posts: 1,507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeoboxter
What I don't understand is, how can the debris get through the filter?
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That is pretty easy to answer. The oil filter has a valve / bypass. The valve is actuated by a spring. If the oil pressure is too high – especially when the oil is cold – the bypass opens and unfiltered oil runs through the engine. Sometimes these springs also get old. And in the 9x6 oil system the spring loaded bypass is not part of the oil filter itself, but of the oil filter housing - so potentially never gets replaced.
The rod bearing wear doesn't look evenly to me. That should be investigated further.
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11-03-2024, 10:16 AM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: North Cali
Posts: 816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old911doc
I see that the engine still has the plastic-cup oil filter thingy. Those sometimes become extremely tight, requiring, I estimate, 250+ ft-lbs to remove. I suggest you remove that from the engine before you remove the engine or transmission from the chassis. Exerting that much force on an engine on a stand only serves to move the stand across your shop. IMHO that plastic cup is the second-worse thing Porsche ever did, after locating the immobilizer module under the driver’s seat.
Oh, also: to remove the oil filter cup, use the aluminum filter wrench branded as Craftsman and sold through Lowe’s, but be aware that you likely won’t be able to remove the cap wrench from the plastic cup once you get it off.
Good luck with project!
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Thanks for the tip, I never had a problem with loosening that cap. A kit is available to convert it to a spin-on type filter and then you can choose different filter materials with different filtering pore diameters.
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11-03-2024, 10:35 AM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: North Cali
Posts: 816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallblock454
That is pretty easy to answer. The oil filter has a valve / bypass. The valve is actuated by a spring. If the oil pressure is too high – especially when the oil is cold – the bypass opens and unfiltered oil runs through the engine. Sometimes these springs also get old. And in the 9x6 oil system the spring loaded bypass is not part of the oil filter itself, but of the oil filter housing - so potentially never gets replaced.
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Yeah, that's a possibility, but the bypass valve should only open when the filter gets completely clogged up. This was not the case in this engine. I think the wear on the bearings would look different also. I opened up the filter and it looks like this:
Hundreds of these tiny metal chips. I also found one or two on the back side but I'm not sure if they made it through the filter material or I just contaminated it when I cut the filter apart. Anyways, I think if these pieces went through the main bearing clearances they would have left a lot of scratch marks on the bearing surfaces and even on the journals. Instead, the wear on the bearings looks smooth to me. So it's more like a wear caused by oil starvation. I'll look into the spin-on filter conversion though, that adds some extra protection against the old bypass valve failure also. Thanks for the tip
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallblock454
The rod bearing wear doesn't look evenly to me. That should be investigated further.
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I didn't post pictures of the rod bearings. If you meant the main bearings, there is indeed some unevennness. One side must have undergone a lot of impact when the pistons were hammering on the valves, that force went down all the way to the main bearings. This could cause some asymmetry in the wear pattern...
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11-03-2024, 02:09 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: LB, Germany
Posts: 1,507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeoboxter
Yeah, that's a possibility, but the bypass valve should only open when the filter gets completely clogged up.
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Sorry, but you're wrong on that. It will also open if the oil pressure exceeds a specified pressure level. And this can also happen when the oil is cold and thick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeoboxter
Hundreds of these tiny metal chips.
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That explains the main bearings (i meant main bearings, sorry. English is not my mother language).
Because of the metal chip contamination, all bearings should be checked.
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11-03-2024, 02:33 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: North Cali
Posts: 816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallblock454
Sorry, but you're wrong on that. It will also open if the oil pressure exceeds a specified pressure level. And this can also happen when the oil is cold and thick.
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Yes, you are right. I'm not sure though if at this climate the oil can get that thick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallblock454
English is not my mother language).
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Mine neither
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11-19-2024, 12:56 AM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: LB, Germany
Posts: 1,507
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Any news? Any new findings?
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11-21-2024, 10:37 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: North Cali
Posts: 816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallblock454
Any news? Any new findings?
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Not much, really. I did some measurements on the crank journals, they are all uniform and don't show any wear, so I dropped the crankshaft off at a machine shop for polishing. I ordered new bearings, once they arrive I'll assemble the bearing carrier, so there's that. Regarding the wear on the main bearings, I contacted the original owner to get to know more details about the circumstances of the failure. He says the engine was running for about half a minute after the bang and it was running pretty rough. So, it's surprising that the engine did not just stall, with only 3 functional cylinders. It's also interesting to consider that it was running without oil returning from the head to the sump, potentially resulting oil starvation at the main bearings at idle..
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