Please Help!!!! - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

quikslver22 · 02-19-2007, 07:39 PM

yeah i wasnt planning on proposing that to them, its just my opinion. Cause if you think about it, if its sucha reliable and good engine design as they say, why is a flat engine not used in the carrera gt? I know its a 10-cyc, but if they can make a flat-8 im sure a flat-10 wouldnt be much more difficult to make than a v16 back in 1930!

but i am just focusing more on the rms and intermediate shafts that are causing engine failures. I think it should be a recall ... no matter whether it is under a warranty or not.

denverpete · 02-20-2007, 06:11 AM

First, I understand you are upset - but really that's not going to help your situation with Porsche. Take a calm and reasonable approach and see how that goes first.

Second, you really don't know at this point whether or not you need a new engine. Until then, this is all just speculation.

Third, if you do need yet another engine, I'd think that you are exactly the type of person Porsche wants to help.

Finally, POA does in fact often help with the replacement costs of a new or used engine. This is entirely at their discretion (see my first point). Often they will pay for the engine but you are responsible for installation - or they might offer 50-75%. While this probably doesn't seem like a fair trade, keep in mind that they really have no obligation to help and you would be getting a new Porsche engine for around $3000.

Let us know how all this turns out.

Brucelee · 02-20-2007, 06:14 AM

I encourage you to go about this logically and have very low expectations.

As for it being the Boxer engine design, you can forget that. These guys have been pumping out flat engines since the 50s. They are not going to suddenly give you a new engine based on that score.

PS-Subaru uses the same design and their engines do not implode.

Best of luck!!!

quikslver22 · 02-20-2007, 06:25 AM

like i said its just my opinion ... and check these out:

http://www.demeis.com/motorsport/tech/ej20rebuild.html
http://www.carsurvey.org/viewcomments_review_69979.html
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1005112900061

Just some things on i found on the subaru engines failing. They just as much as the Porsche design. Most v or inline designed engines have yet to have such a disaster that ive seen. It is usually cause by the owner of the car and not the engine.

My engine does need replacing and they want 9.5 hours of labor and $7k for engine parts ... got the phone call this morning around 10am eastern. I am gong to fight with them, from what i have read people without a warranty are sol and POA is NOT helping them. We will see what happens, i will keep you guys posted!

And i dont mind paying $2-$3k out of my pocket, but i hardly see how i should pay anything at all. My proposal to them is, since they arent having this problem in the later models as much as the earlier models and the numbers have gone down drastically, then give me the newer model engine and ill pay the difference. Thats where im going with them, but you cant get anywhere with out facts. So far i have found about 100 engine replacements in the last year. Some waranty and some not. And to set the record straight im not raging with anger about it. Im pretty calm adn collected. Just going to speak strongly and let the records speak for themselves.

porsche986spyder · 02-20-2007, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quikslver22

It is usually cause by the owner of the car and not the engine.

What's your driving style? Do you drive it by shifting only at high rev points? Ever "red-line" during shifting? If so, I would re-think your driving style espesially after the need of a 2nd engine. Good luck.

quikslver22 · 02-20-2007, 07:01 AM

i do not race my boxster, i change gears in the 3-5k rpm range as told it was best by Porsche. The first replacement was due to oil, they wouldnt give me any more details. Besides that though, the car was supposed to made for performance and stability, not driven to disaster.

denverpete · 02-20-2007, 07:08 AM

Let's not put this on the driver. He came asking for help not driving advice based on speculation.

Again, to my previous points - POA is helping some people with engine replacement costs out of warranty. I agree that you shouldn't have to have 3 engines at 90K miles. However, there is the concept of fair use. You used the car and the existing engine(s) - a new engine benefits you by, now having a 0 mile engine versus a 90K mile engine. I would approach POA and present my case. If you purchased your P-car at a dealer or went to a dealer regularly for service, they can also help you make your case.

I would be curious as to what the failure was. You mentioned "engine parts" - I don't know of any intermediate shaft failures where they simply "fixed" the engine. It's always been a new or refurbished engine.

Brucelee · 02-20-2007, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quikslver22

like i said its just my opinion ... and check these out:

http://www.demeis.com/motorsport/tech/ej20rebuild.html
http://www.carsurvey.org/viewcomments_review_69979.html
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1005112900061

Just some things on i found on the subaru engines failing. They just as much as the Porsche design. Most v or inline designed engines have yet to have such a disaster that ive seen. It is usually cause by the owner of the car and not the engine.

My engine does need replacing and they want 9.5 hours of labor and $7k for engine parts ... got the phone call this morning around 10am eastern. I am gong to fight with them, from what i have read people without a warranty are sol and POA is NOT helping them. We will see what happens, i will keep you guys posted!

And i dont mind paying $2-$3k out of my pocket, but i hardly see how i should pay anything at all. My proposal to them is, since they arent having this problem in the later models as much as the earlier models and the numbers have gone down drastically, then give me the newer model engine and ill pay the difference. Thats where im going with them, but you cant get anywhere with out facts. So far i have found about 100 engine replacements in the last year. Some waranty and some not. And to set the record straight im not raging with anger about it. Im pretty calm adn collected. Just going to speak strongly and let the records speak for themselves.

Anecdote is great. My son's Sub had 190K on it when we sold it. Must be a bad engine design.

Brucelee · 02-20-2007, 07:08 AM

BTW- You asked for our help, yet you are insist on going down the "your flat engine design has been all wrong for over 50 yrs" rathole.

All I am saying is, IMO, if you take that tact with Porsche, you will not get a cup of coffee from them, let alone a new engine.

Do you want to be "right" or do you want to get some money back?

Oh, and the junk yards are full of ALL KINDS of engines that have failed, V8's. 6s etc.

Good luck trying to prove the flat engine is fundamentally flawed.

Brucelee · 02-20-2007, 07:11 AM

The IMS failure is usually lights out for the engine, like NOW!

Replacment is the usual Porsche repair strategy on this failure.

Yes, IMS is a known problem in the Boxster, as it has happened more than a few times.

aren040 · 02-20-2007, 09:38 AM

I don't know about the Porsche engine in general but I can attest that the Flat Engine/Boxer design is not the issue. I come from the Subaru world and I can tell you that the design is not a problem. There are thousands of people with flat Subaru engines without problems. Check out my old stomping ground (which I still visit daily) www.nasioc.com. They have 140,000+ members right now. You wont hear too much about engines dieing.

I am sorry for your loss and since this has been a persistent problem with this engine I agree that Porsche should do something. So good luck to you and your cause.

quikslver22 · 02-20-2007, 10:08 AM

ok just to clarify where i was coming from with the "engine design" I wasnt saying that the Boxer Designed engines were faulty. I was saying that the PORSCHE Designed Boxer motor was faulty. There seems to be a consistency in it being replaced in the earlier versions more than the newer ones. Now from what i do know the RMS finally has a complete fix. Talked to the service tech here in my dealership and he said they have finally got a seal that hasnt leaked out oil after being being replaced. Which is good news because its not fun to throw away 1k every year for a new rms seal replacement. Also the new engine in the 05-06 has been redesigned a little bit and should fix the rest of the problems. Hince the wider rear body, but we will find out as the years go on.

aren040 · 02-20-2007, 12:24 PM

That's good to know. So essentially my MY07 Boxster should have no RMS issues at all. Well, that is IF (and that's a big if) the dealer service guy you talked to is correct.

Nothing against you at all there buddy but I am very sceptical of anything coming out of a dealers or their service peoples mouths. I had many bad experiences that I don't want to get into.

Brucelee · 02-20-2007, 12:26 PM

Just so you know, in the Porsche world, a Porsche "remanufactured" engine is in fact, new. They DO reuse some externals from other engines such as FI, wiring and the like.

However, the block, heads etc. are all factory new.

I don't think the remanufactured angle is going to gain you any leverage.

MNBoxster · 02-20-2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quikslver22

ok just to clarify where i was coming from with the "engine design" I wasnt saying that the Boxer Designed engines were faulty. I was saying that the PORSCHE Designed Boxer motor was faulty. There seems to be a consistency in it being replaced in the earlier versions more than the newer ones. Now from what i do know the RMS finally has a complete fix. Talked to the service tech here in my dealership and he said they have finally got a seal that hasnt leaked out oil after being being replaced. Which is good news because its not fun to throw away 1k every year for a new rms seal replacement. Also the new engine in the 05-06 has been redesigned a little bit and should fix the rest of the problems. Hince the wider rear body, but we will find out as the years go on.

Hi,

Sorry, but he's giving you the old Party Line. First, the engine is still an M96 engine and the same dimension as all the others, no need for wider body panels. And, this area's PCNA Service Rep told me that they are still experiencing the same problems with the '05, '06 and '07s. There are many documented failures of RMS and IMS in the 987's. Fewer to date, but that's most likely because bye-and-large they have, collectively, racked up fewer miles.

The newer seals do work better, but by better they mean go a little longer before failing. Again, there are numerous failures on the later cars...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99