Cursed by the double-clutch

[David N.]

Hey Nick. It's pretty easy really, it spreads out the shifting process through more steps, and in a way simplifies it because you'll never really need to precisely vary both feet at the same time. Easy practice is to downshift and upshift while cruising and try to get the revs exact and the stick to slide into the gate with no resistance at all. I guess I worked at it for a week's work of driving before I didn't have to think about it.

At the end of the day it's not really that handy for performance driving, it's obviously more steps and takes a lot longer. It's just nice because it seems to be easier on the tranny.

[John V]

Originally Posted by David N.

Hey Nick. It's pretty easy really, it spreads out the shifting process through more steps, and in a way simplifies it because you'll never really need to precisely vary both feet at the same time. Easy practice is to downshift and upshift while cruising and try to get the revs exact and the stick to slide into the gate with no resistance at all. I guess I worked at it for a week's work of driving before I didn't have to think about it.

At the end of the day it's not really that handy for performance driving, it's obviously more steps and takes a lot longer. It's just nice because it seems to be easier on the tranny.

Waste of time and energy. You'll never double clutch a synchro box as fast as the synchros can do it, unless they're worn.

Let the synchros do their job. They're very durable in these transmissions, and they're there to help ya.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by John V

Waste of time and energy. You'll never double clutch a synchro box as fast as the synchros can do it, unless they're worn.

Let the synchros do their job. They're very durable in these transmissions, and they're there to help ya.

Hi,

I agree that today, you don't need to do it, but it's still a good skill to master. Anything which makes you a better driver is worthwhile IMHO.

While the synchros will do the job, I feel it's especially important learning how to match revs for downshifting, this will really preserve both the Box and the Clutch, the Clutch in particular.

And, you never know, you may aspire to Auto-X (rev matching keeps the engine in the sweet spot, an aid toward improving your ETs) or Race someday, and not all race cars have a synchro transmission. My old Formula Ford didn't - straight cut Dog gears. You either double-clutched, or spent your time fodding the Track picking up pieces of your broken tranny...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[John V]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

I agree that today, you don't need to do it, but it's still a good skill to master. Anything which makes you a better driver is worthwhile IMHO.

While the synchros will do the job, I feel it's especially important learning how to match revs for downshifting, this will really preserve both the Box and the Clutch, the Clutch in particular.

And, you never know, you may aspire to Auto-X (rev matching keeps the engine in the sweet spot, an aid toward improving your ETs) or Race someday, and not all race cars have a synchro transmission. My old Formula Ford didn't - straight cut Dog gears. You either double-clutched, or spent your time fodding the Track picking up pieces of your broken tranny...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Well, rev matching and double-clutching are two completely different techniques. Rev-matching is, as you say, crucial to smooth and fast driving. But rev matching isn't about keeping the engine in the "sweet spot." Rev matching is only done to reduce the load on the clutch when shifting to a lower gear - think using your clutch to engage 2nd gear at highway speeds with the engine at idle. Would you rather use the clutch friction to increase the engine speed or use the throttle? I think you'd rather use the throttle, and that's rev-matching.

Double-clutching, in a synchro box, will just slow down your shifts and is a waste of time and energy.

I do know a thing or two about autocross as I do about 20 events a year including multiple National Tours / ProSolos and the Solo Nationals. I've only downshifted once in the past three years!

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by John V

Well, rev matching and double-clutching are two completely different techniques. Rev-matching is, as you say, crucial to smooth and fast driving. But rev matching isn't about keeping the engine in the "sweet spot." Rev matching is only done to reduce the load on the clutch when shifting to a lower gear - think using your clutch to engage 2nd gear at highway speeds with the engine at idle. Would you rather use the clutch friction to increase the engine speed or use the throttle? I think you'd rather use the throttle, and that's rev-matching.

Double-clutching, in a synchro box, will just slow down your shifts and is a waste of time and energy.

I do know a thing or two about autocross as I do about 20 events a year including multiple National Tours / ProSolos and the Solo Nationals. I've only downshifted once in the past three years!

Hi,

Yes, of course you're right, double-clutching and rev-matching are two different things. I guess my post was more to encourage people to match their revs than to double-clutch anyway. But by double-clutching, you master that technique of stabbing the throttle and matching the revs, as the Lister said, without even thinking about it...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Rail26]

I thought flying helicopters was hard...that just blew my mind.

[Adam]

I am now in the habit of rev matching in both my daily driven Mazda 3 and the boxster however heel n toe is still out of my grasp. I even have difficulty matching revs still.....sometimes I over rev and engage the clutch and sometimes I undershoot the desired rpm. When it works out is feels nice and smooth but it is certainly not easy to master. I am now trying to rev match without looking at the tach and going purely by pedal posistion and sound with mixed results. Practice makes perfect I guess.

[chiefsalami]

Originally Posted by Rail26

I thought flying helicopters was hard...that just blew my mind.

Amen, brother. I've tried to double-clutch and can't do it quickly like that. I've also gotten so used to (up)shifting very quickly due in part to the short-throw shifter in my R32, that my downshifts are also very quick and I almost always heel-toe anyway. So the synchros don't do much work as I'm generally in about the right rev range while downshifting. Now, if I need to downshift and skip a gear, generally I have a little more time and I can perform a crappy, overthought-out double-clutch because I know it's more difficult to have your revs and synchros lined up if you're skipping a gear or 2.