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Old 07-13-2018, 01:37 PM   #1
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Which clutch to buy LUK or Sachs?

What is your opinion?
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:26 PM   #2
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And when your state your opinion, please detail on what experience the opinion is based. How many hundreds of each have you installed and thus provided the basis of your opinion.
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:29 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by mikefocke View Post
And when your state your opinion, please detail on what experience the opinion is based. How many hundreds of each have you installed and thus provided the basis of your opinion.
Really? No wonder no one responded to this. Sure would have been helpful to have someone provide their experience instead of this completely unhelpful post. Mikefocke, never respond to one of my posts again, I don't care if I'm dying and your response is the only thing that can save me, don't respond. I don't care if you realize that I've been dead for three days and you are the only one who knows, even then, don't respond. I'm looking for someone who has something positive or helpful to say, and you are not that person. Folks like you make this less of a forum. Just leave. Too harsh? I think not.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:45 PM   #4
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Mikefocke has contributed more to this and other forums than you or I will ever know. So lighten up and relax.

As far as Sachs or Luk, here is my opinion. Both are fine. I've only experienced 2 clutches in my 2003 S; the one in there now and the one that was in there before this one. Find either at a good price and guess what, you will never know one from the other once its installed.

Last edited by paulofto; 07-14-2018 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:10 PM   #5
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I think Mike is just having a bad day.

I went with Sachs because of price. $298 shipped with pressure plate, throw out bearing, pilot bearing, grease and alignment tool. That was 1.5 years ago. No issues and feels nice.
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Old 07-15-2018, 05:47 AM   #6
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Thanks for the helpful responses, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

I went with the Sachs before I read your posts because I'm chicken about using anything but OEM on a repair this invasive, I'd hate to do it twice.

I'm not sure why Mikefocke decided to take an adversarial approach to a simple question. He contributed nothing by shutting down the conversation and received the reply anyone acting that way deserves, regardless of their posting history.

When I reply to a post my goal is always to be helpful. Hopefully my reply to Mike will be helpful in letting him know just because your behind a keyboard and you cannot see the person your replying to, you should remain polite and civil.
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:00 AM   #7
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My reply followed a few hours of reading postings on this and other car forums by people whose experience was either none or limited to a sample of one and thus their opinions were more to justify the wisdom of their choice than to throw some evidence based facts out for our enlightenment. How do you compare and contrast without the experience of both items? How do you value someone's opinion without knowing what experiences/facts/readings they are based on? I was inviting someone with experience with both products to post.

Not to mention the evident lack of the use of the forum's search function.

So yes my frustration showed.
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:43 AM   #8
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I actually did use the search function before posting. Your assumption that I did not was presumptive and incorrect.

Anyone pointing to the search function instead simply answering a question or moving on without comment is simply being a jerk to someone who is asking for help.

Your posts in this string certainly fit that description.

Reading both of your posts, the second is a weak attempt to justify your bad behavior in the first.

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

Now I have to figure out how to use the "block" function.
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:58 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jamesp View Post
I actually did use the search function before posting. Your assumption that I did not was presumptive and incorrect.

Anyone pointing to the search function instead simply answering a question or moving on without comment is simply being a jerk to someone who is asking for help.

Your posts in this string certainly fit that description.

Reading both of your posts, the second is a weak attempt to justify your bad behavior in the first.

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

Now I have to figure out how to use the "block" function.
In that case, you should add me to your blocked list.

Mike provided a rather level headed comment about getting an opinion from someone with more than one data point, which is a suggestion well worth considering. Mike has been around for along time, and comments from years of experience, including running one of the best historical data website for 986/987 cars. He is in regular contact with a wide variety of people with extensive technical experience with these cars, so he is repository of a lot of information.

As for the comment about using the search function, far too many people ask the same question that has been asked innumerable times previously, rather than taking a few min of time to look around first. As a moderator on another Porsche technical website, I see this happen every day, when someone asks a question that has already been answered in detail more than a dozen times previously, and even has a fully detailed DIY in our tutorial section of the forum. My, and many other posters standard response is “Search is your friend”. As such, I saw Mike’s comment as a valid suggestion rather than as the criticism you seem to have taken.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:12 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
In that case, you should add me to your blocked list.
Done.

And it is aptly named "ignore".

I don't care how much information you have, or how high an opinion of yourself you have. Treating people poorly is disrespectful and should not be tolerated, and "search is your friend" is insulting and arrogant.

If you're unable add value to a string stay silent.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:09 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Jamesp View Post
Thanks for the helpful responses, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

I went with the Sachs before I read your posts because I'm chicken about using anything but OEM on a repair this invasive, I'd hate to do it twice.

I'm not sure why Mikefocke decided to take an adversarial approach to a simple question. He contributed nothing by shutting down the conversation and received the reply anyone acting that way deserves, regardless of their posting history.

When I reply to a post my goal is always to be helpful. Hopefully my reply to Mike will be helpful in letting him know just because your behind a keyboard and you cannot see the person your replying to, you should remain polite and civil.
Jamesp I was tempted to reply to your post several times since it sat there so long seemingly ignored. I was reluctant to post due to thinking along the same thought process as Mike in his post, which at least bumped your thread 24 hrs after you posted. I have no better info than what post #5 recommends other than to say it is foolish to block info from top original posters.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:20 AM   #12
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I gotta say if there are two people I would NEVER ignore regarding Boxsters it is JFP and mikefocke. Distancing yourself from 2 of the most knowledgeable people who have ever contributed to this and other Porsche forums is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

That said everyone is entitled to their own choices in life. Even bad ones.

Anyway, the Sachs clutch will work out fine and now that it is in there you will largely forget about it. Drive that car.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:21 AM   #13
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James, don’t be too hasty in blocking people out because you don’t like their tone. Both Mike and JFP are valuable resources on this forum. I find that this forum is actually quite civil compared to some others. Just let it roll off.
Cheers, James
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:22 AM   #14
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Here is my observation, like it or not!

I didnt think Mikes post was rude, did not think the how many hundreds you installed added anything. But he did point out the need for extra data point such as in particle waves post.

The authour is being a little too sensative, to that comment.

JFP I get your po8nt about search, but its better to do a quick search add the relavent link and nicely suggest other searches will produce more info. I always do a search find lots of info manytimes its not relavent. As someone requesting help getting the search is your friend annoys me, i would prefer no reply. As a collective group I beleive we are here to support each other as enthusiasts.

That said on my part I appreciate all reesponses I have received and enjoyed discussing various topics. But you cant be overly sensative, we are all human and have various cultural backgrounds.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:58 AM   #15
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[QUOTE=Cunningr;575250]Here is my observation, like it or not!

I didnt think Mikes post was rude, did not think the how many hundreds you installed added anything. But he did point out the need for extra data point such as in particle waves post.

The authour is being a little too sensative, to that comment.

JFP I get your po8nt about search, but its better to do a quick search add the relavent link and nicely suggest other searches will produce more info. I always do a search find lots of info manytimes its not relavent. As someone requesting help getting the search is your friend annoys me, i would prefer no reply. As a collective group I beleive we are here to support each other as enthusiasts.

New people posting weekly with questions that have been answered multiple times clogs up the forum with unnessesary threads making it harder to search for what you want. Also limits the quality of your search results.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefocke View Post
And when your state your opinion, please detail on what experience the opinion is based. How many hundreds of each have you installed and thus provided the basis of your opinion.
At least I offered an opinion!

Here is another post Jamesp made:

2003 S 144k miles daily driver, clutch slipping at higher loads. Looks like it's time for a new clutch and flywheel. Anyone have words of wisdom on which clutch and flywheel arrangement to choose? How about any "as long as you have it apart" advice?

A earlier quote I made:

Check out the German made LUK clutch and DM Flywheel. I found the LUK had a 9" disc where the Sach's only had a 8 1/2" disc. That assembly was for the Wife's 05 TDI Beetle. I know that Sach's clutches are in the Boxsters. I might also mention the clutch fingers are a little longer on the LUK's which makes the pedal somewhat softer. The Sach's are shorter which makes for a little stiffer pedal. I plan on using the LUK if I ever need to change. The DMF and Clutch is less than $350 from a company in NC.
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Last edited by Lew; 07-15-2018 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:37 PM   #17
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[QUOTE=BYprodriver;575255]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunningr View Post
Here is my observation, like it or not!

I didnt think Mikes post was rude, did not think the how many hundreds you installed added anything. But he did point out the need for extra data point such as in particle waves post.

The authour is being a little too sensative, to that comment.

JFP I get your po8nt about search, but its better to do a quick search add the relavent link and nicely suggest other searches will produce more info. I always do a search find lots of info manytimes its not relavent. As someone requesting help getting the search is your friend annoys me, i would prefer no reply. As a collective group I beleive we are here to support each other as enthusiasts.

New people posting weekly with questions that have been answered multiple times clogs up the forum with unnessesary threads making it harder to search for what you want. Also limits the quality of your search results.
Yes i get that, but there are ways to help, they already made the post so giving them a nudge by doing a search for them and posting a link to thread helps more than saying try search engine.

My point is posting use the search is not helping and will add to the clogging. Additionally i give people the benefit of a doubt they tried a search. If you dont want to help then dont post!

I dont know alot but i have personnaly executed searches to try and help resolve a persons issue.
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Old 07-15-2018, 02:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew View Post
At least I offered an opinion!

Here is another post Jamesp made:

2003 S 144k miles daily driver, clutch slipping at higher loads. Looks like it's time for a new clutch and flywheel. Anyone have words of wisdom on which clutch and flywheel arrangement to choose? How about any "as long as you have it apart" advice?

A earlier quote I made:

Check out the German made LUK clutch and DM Flywheel. I found the LUK had a 9" disc where the Sach's only had a 8 1/2" disc. That assembly was for the Wife's 05 TDI Beetle. I know that Sach's clutches are in the Boxsters. I might also mention the clutch fingers are a little longer on the LUK's which makes the pedal somewhat softer. The Sach's are shorter which makes for a little stiffer pedal. I plan on using the LUK if I ever need to change. The DMF and Clutch is less than $350 from a company in NC.
Lew,

Thank you for your earlier reply. I received sparse replies on the first post I made, and yours was very thoughtful and helpful. I am very conservative in making repairs, so while I should have responded to your reply thanking you, the thought of using a different type of clutch (though it does seem technically superior) had me running away screaming like a little girl. I was not going to reply to this post again as I didn't want it bumped to the top yet again, but you deserve a shout out as you are doing the right thing providing the knowledge you have. Thanks again.
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Old 07-15-2018, 02:55 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by paulofto View Post
Mikefocke has contributed more to this and other forums than you or I will ever know. So lighten up and relax.

As far as Sachs or Luk, here is my opinion. Both are fine. I've only experienced 2 clutches in my 2003 S; the one in there now and the one that was in there before this one. Find either at a good price and guess what, you will never know one from the other once its installed.
As mentioned the LUK will give you a softer pedal than the Sach's. You know how I knew that, after I installed the DMF and the LUK clutch, the wife said the pedal seems softer. How bout that, my Wife could tell right off.
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Old 07-15-2018, 03:32 PM   #20
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I like the stock clutch....

....That's what I installed with a new flywheel and I love it.

Street car, no track days.
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