Supercharger - Imagine Auto - Page 2 - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

rennsport986 · 09-02-2006, 04:58 PM

The guy I know with the 3.4L conversion had a full exhaust (extractors/cats/muffler) made or customised by Starr Performance in Melbourne. I'm not sure if his exhaust setup is the same that they would usually recommend for a standard 2.5/2.7/3.2 Boxster/S.

I've been in contact with Starr Performance who were very honest with me and advised that the exhausts that they have for normal 2.5/2.7/3.2 986's DO NOT provide any performance increase, just a much more aggressive sound. This is in contrast to the race exhausts they do for GT3's which do provide additional horsepower.

I'd be interested to get an idea of some ballpark costs for the turbo kit. I must admit though I have some reservations as to how bulletproof the 2.5 engine will be when turbocharged. I also haven't come across any feedback for the Turbowerx kit, so am unaware how good/bad it may be.

Loper · 09-06-2006, 06:30 AM

I certainly don't mean to hijack this thread or go off on too far a tangent, but has anyone installed a Turbo/Supercharger into a 987 yet? or are they too new yet? and is it worth the cost for the increase? And, of course, does anyone know anyone that's even selling performace parts for the 987 yet? I've been having trouble finding them so far.

I've seriously considered doing it, although like most I'll probably wait until the warantee is expired rather than void it prematurely.

For reference, this is for an 06 987 (Boxster), non-S, 2.7L. I'm pleased with the stock performance so far, but I've always been one to tinker with my cars/bikes, but this is my first Porsche, so it's still a little new for me.

Thanks in advance!

09-06-2006, 06:56 AM

im confused as to why anyone of you even want to do this to your boxster's. so for $8000 all you get is 50h.p. + wear n tear on the engine + you just blew up the price of a $50,000 boxster, that is over priced in the first place. now you have a car that for sure nobody will buy. because its just too expensive.

i bet for $8000 i could buy a used civic, put a turbo or a sc kit and blow away any boxster that cost $58,000 with a turbo kit.

do the math doesnt work out. if it was h.p you were after you bought the wrong car. esspecially with cars on the market today with stock 300h.p. dam even a $25,000 mazda comes with 275 h.p add a turbo kit for what $8000. the boxster can't compete.

save the money if i were you. nobody is going to buy these kits...............maybe 1 out of 100 boxster owners.

MNBoxster · 09-06-2006, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KronixSpeed

im confused as to why anyone of you even want to do this to your boxster's. so for $8000 all you get is 50h.p. + wear n tear on the engine + you just blew up the price of a $50,000 boxster, that is over priced in the first place. now you have a car that for sure nobody will buy. because its just too expensive.

i bet for $8000 i could buy a used civic, put a turbo or a sc kit and blow away any boxster that cost $58,000 with a turbo kit.

do the math doesnt work out. if it was h.p you were after you bought the wrong car. esspecially with cars on the market today with stock 300h.p. dam even a $25,000 mazda comes with 275 h.p add a turbo kit for what $8000. the boxster can't compete.

save the money if i were you. nobody is going to buy these kits...............maybe 1 out of 100 boxster owners.

Hi,

This subject is purely a matter of opinion. Some want 'em, others don't. That said, I tend to agree with you.

In almost all applications, a Turbocharger or Supercharger is a compromise. That is, it can make a small engine act like a bigger one. But, it accomplishes this through more complexity, significantly greater cost, decreased reliability and longevity, and with the case of the Turbo, excessive amounts of heat - a significant factor in a mid-engined car which already usually has heat management issues. In the end, all you have is still a small displacement engine with little bottom end.

I also agree that many want the Boxster to be something it isn't - a rip-roaring power and torque monster. Many want a Boxster on the outside with a Viper on the inside, which just isn't possible. As you say, many simply bought the wrong car.

Before simply adding a Turbo/Super, anyone contemplating this should seriously consider selling the car and finding something more appropriate to their wants and needs. In the end, many would be happier going this route, though few will realize this before the fact, and some may live to regret not having done so later on.

Selling a Car and choosing another is one of the easiest things in the world to do. But many don't realize this, or want to face the penalty they may have incurred by buying the wrong car in the first place, namely depreciation.

So instead, they settle for the compromise of force-feeding the engine. To my mind, this is just digging a deeper hole, better to cut your losses and get into something which is more satisfying to you, but as I said, that's me.

Others simply want to modify their car. Many are never satisfied with whatever rolls off the line. That's OK too, but I'd be much more inclined to go the 3.4L or 3.8L engine swap than to force the motor. There's truth to the addage that "there's no substitute for cubic inches...". This option is less complex, more reliable, will probably hold resale value better, and produce a broader power/torque band. Overall, it would probably deliver more satisfaction, and that's really what it's all about...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

09-06-2006, 08:26 AM

MNBoxster is exactly right................

Adam · 09-06-2006, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

There's truth to the addage that "there's no substitute for cubic inches...".

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

lol... I think this one has a better ring to it "there's no replacement for displacement."

Sammy · 09-06-2006, 11:01 AM

This is an honest question so there is no sarcasm meant...

What options are out there that offer a drop top with the same handling abilities as a Boxster? Keep in mind that I'm a firm believer that the best handling cars are mid-engine.

MNBoxster · 09-06-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammy

This is an honest question so there is no sarcasm meant...

What options are out there that offer a drop top with the same handling abilities as a Boxster? Keep in mind that I'm a firm believer that the best handling cars are mid-engine.

Hi,

I think it is a valid question. But, the Boxster is not the best handling car in the world. I've owned several which will outperform it, including my current Lotus Esprit (with approx the same weight, HP, length and track - coincidence?), a lotus Europa and an Elan SE. The Noble M400, the Cayman S, and new Elise will also out-handle it, but of course of all these, only the Elan is offered as a convertible.

The Boxster may be the best handling production drop top in the world, but the Lotus Elan, a limited production drop top (1962-1973), is generally considered by enthusiasts and automotive engineers to be the best handling car of all time. This is the model most shoot for, in fact, the Miata is the result of Mazda buying 2 '71 Elans in the mid-80's and reverse engineering them. I used to own one (a '72SE) and it'll run circles around the Boxster. BTW, most do not realize that the Elan is a Front mid-engine car in that the engine lies behind the front axle. If you ever have the opportunity to drive one of these, be sure not to pass it up.

But, back to your question. There is no perfect car, or any car that will top out in the Speed and Handling categories at the same time. If you think you can slap on a bunch of ponies and reach this ultimate goal, you'll find that you fall short or upset the delicate balance of the car. The fatsest car is not often the first to complete a lap, it's how far you can stay off the brakes into the corner and how soon you can get back on the power which will determine who can lap the fastest. Finesse over power will win almost every time...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Racer-x · 09-08-2006, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

I think it is a valid question. But, the Boxster is not the best handling car in the world.

True.

But then again... for ALMOST all Boxster owners, the handling will do just fine...

And as far as s/c'ing the engine... think objectively and honestly with yourself for a moment -- you're gonna be leanin' on it most of the time, aren't you? I personally don't have the "ankle-control" to keep my foot off the loud pedal when I've got something that exciting available (yes, an extra 50-60 ponies would make me feel like a 10 year old boy again).

The Boxter's appeal isn't it's horsepower, it's the finesse. Open up the intake and exhaust, blow a few bucks through a 'Tweeks' mag for some nice looking touches... You've got a classy, calculated and collected, calm car (alliteration!)

You really want a rocketship? If you've got Motronic 7.8+, go to FVD and tell them you want to spend $25,000 on a 3.8L Carrera S motor swap. Sell your current motor for a few bucks, if you're lucky, get the total-out-the-door price of the swap down to about $20 large, and go blow the doors off of everything that looks at you wrong.

I'm looking at no more than $25 invested in my current boxster... add another $20 to that figure and we've got a $45,000, gorgeous boxster with 355bhp. That's
1) less than a new boxster, 2) a sleeper, 3) an understressed motor, 4) an unbelievable sound (kind of like accelerating while your head is in the engine bay of a 997), and 5).... you've still got room for small improvements to the motor (or, if you are really ballsy a s/c...which would seem a safer choice on a 911 motor).

Once you NEED more from your boxster, go this route. Please... it'll probably lower the cost for when I'm ready for it!

pecivil · 09-09-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

The fatsest car is not often the first to complete a lap, it's how far you can stay off the brakes into the corner and how soon you can get back on the power which will determine who can lap the fastest. Finesse over power will win almost every time

kind of true.....it depends on how long the straights are on the track layout. If there are significant straights, the larger hp cars, although outbraked in the turns, can make it up (and then some) on the straights. In club races where boxsters and 911 are on the track at the same time, the boxsters are always right with the 911 (or ahead!) through the turns, but they always lose in the straights cause they dont have the oomph.

Racer X what you said is exactly the conclusion I came to. My 00 box is in the shop right now getting its 3.4 installed. I am going with a custom header/cats/muffler setup done by Steve Timmons of Instant G. He developed a custom setup especially for this conversion and it gets the 3.4 egas up to about 320hp at the fly with software. I am also adding the AASCO Lt Wt flywheel, which will take a nice chunk out of the drivetrain losses. I am debating about doing the GIAC software as well. I probably will but it costs another grand!

For anybody interested in the costs here is what I am getting
lightly used 3.4 from a wreck $7000
Custom header/cats/muffler $3000
GT-3 center radiator kit $500
AASCO Lt Wt Fly $800
New Boxster front fascia (to get the opening for the center radiator) $500.
New clutch kit $400
Labor about $3000.

Grand Total around 16k. Paid 25k for the car 2 years ago (30k miles) that cost 50 grand brand new. So for 41k total investment I will have a great handling Porsche roadster with equal hp to a 996 and less weight, that cost 10k less than the car cost brand new, and WAY less than a new 987, with more hp than a 987.

I am not worried about selling, because I love my Boxster so much I would never sell it anyway. I will drive it until it falls to pieces.

I dont like the styling of the 987 anyway.

MNBoxster · 09-09-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pecivil

kind of true.....it depends on how long the straights are on the track layout. If there are significant straights, the larger hp cars, although outbraked in the turns, can make it up (and then some) on the straights. In club races where boxsters and 911 are on the track at the same time, the boxsters are always right with the 911 (or ahead!) through the turns, but they always lose in the straights cause they dont have the oomph.

Racer X what you said is exactly the conclusion I came to. My 00 box is in the shop right now getting its 3.4 installed. I am going with a custom header/cats/muffler setup done by Steve Timmons of Instant G. He developed a custom setup especially for this conversion and it gets the 3.4 egas up to about 320hp at the fly with software. I am also adding the AASCO Lt Wt flywheel, which will take a nice chunk out of the drivetrain losses. I am debating about doing the GIAC software as well. I probably will but it costs another grand!

For anybody interested in the costs here is what I am getting
lightly used 3.4 from a wreck $7000
Custom header/cats/muffler $3000
GT-3 center radiator kit $500
AASCO Lt Wt Fly $800
New Boxster front fascia (to get the opening for the center radiator) $500.
New clutch kit $400
Labor about $3000.

Grand Total around 16k. Paid 25k for the car 2 years ago (30k miles) that cost 50 grand brand new. So for 41k total investment I will have a great handling Porsche roadster with equal hp to a 996 and less weight, that cost 10k less than the car cost brand new, and WAY less than a new 987, with more hp than a 987.

I am not worried about selling, because I love my Boxster so much I would never sell it anyway. I will drive it until it falls to pieces.

I dont like the styling of the 987 anyway.

Hi,

In theory, and if you're driving a high-speed oval such as Indy or Daytona, you're right. But, if you're driving these tracks, you don't want a Boxster anyway.

But, for every road course I've personally driven (and that includes Watkins Glen, Road America, Road Atlanta, Sears Point, Limerock Park, Road Atlanta, Infineon, Blackhawk Farms), my statement is true - the car which can brake the latest and power-on the soonest is usually the quickest lap time.

Going fast down the straight is all about the car, going fast through the twisties is more about the driver...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

oliverg · 09-09-2006, 11:58 PM

I love my Boxster. It truly is an amazing vehicle.

That said, I love the idea of making my Boxster different - faster, better handling - better sound etc. I guess it may be the result of playing too many video games and getting caught up in the collection of "power ups"

If I want to go really fast, I know I can jump in my Subaru WRX STi and cane it until the wheels smoke. But it doesn't feel the same as my Boxster. The Boxster is more refined. Sophisticated.

So at this juncture, having accepted the fact that I want to drive my Boxster, I now sign up to this wonderful forum too fantasize and drool - too implement theories and test unproven designs and guess what - to all those that ask "why spend XXXk when you can drive an X car for less" - I'm having so much fun right now, that's why!

There is something amazing about throwing a supercharger in your car and getting in and "bum dyno" testing it. Sure the Boxster isn't the fastest car in the world, but its mine - I like to drive it and I like to modify it to make it different.

If we didn't enjoy this "hobby", this forum wouldn't exist would it?

pecivil · 09-10-2006, 09:48 AM

Hey Jim!
Sounds like you have quite a lot of track experience and I don't, so I would not presume to disagree with you. Your observations actually remind me of the original BMW M3, a 4 cyl. with only 192hp, but definitely a momentum type of race car, that won everything against higher hp cars. The shop that I take my car to and is doing the engine swap does race a boxster in the spec racing series, and they are very good drivers who also race a GT-3 and a 993 race car. They tell me that in their boxster, they have no trouble keeping up with and beating 911's, including GT-3's, through the turns, but can't keep up on the straights. Which makes sense, a lighter, mid engined car should be faster through the turns than a heavy rear engined car with equal driver abilities.

Sammy · 09-14-2006, 11:49 AM

I still believe that the laws of physics support mid-engine vehicles. I don't see anyway that you can obtain a better balance and shift of weight (weight distribution sitting still doesn't tell the whole story) than having the large engine mass between the axles. Ferarri has done it for years and has been the most prominent "production" benchmark. Even the latest Ford GT has a "mid-engine" set up and it's kickin' some booty at least in magazine tests.

I'm sure the older Elan has some great handling characteristics but was still referred to as a mid-engine vehicle.

I will agree that there have been some great handling vehicles out there but with all things being equal I just don't see how a mid-engine vehicle wouldn't come out on top? Ferarri, Acura, Saleen, etc are all part of this group and I believe they have both power and handling (too bad only Ferarri has the drop top but then again, I can't afford it anyway). The Boxster just happens to be the most affordable (maybe the MR2 should be thrown in here but the visual appeal isn't there for me). I wonder how much you can tune a MR2?

We all know that in taking corners you can slow down faster than you can speed up which is why the extra HP and torque would be nice in pulling out of turns. I don't think looking for extra power is an unreasonable request even if it is pricey.

Of course, I'm not talking about ovals and drag strips because at that point I would agree, buy a different car. I am talking about racing on road courses/autocrosses/twisties/curvy/tracks.

BTW - MNBoxster, I mean all of this in the best of manner for the sake of debate. I look forward to and appreciate your comments and opinions.

Best Regards,
Sammy

mnavarro · 09-28-2006, 11:19 PM

Guys, I'm a noobie. I just bought a use 2003 porsce S boxster in seal grey with 26K miles. I think I know why it's difficult for us to mod the HP for these cars. Porsche knows a thing or two about engineering, but these cars are designed not to be modded easily. If they could easily be modded HP they would prove themselves with inexpensive modification to be superior to the 911, because the handling is already there. So we are given a light engine, unless you want to buy the rumored turbo caymen @ > 100K

I think putting in bigger motors personally sucks compared to the versatility of a turbo setup. On a turbo setup you can have a 100 octane map and make safely 50-60hp more.

How much would it cost to fortify the engine (forged pistons) and what are the limits of the drive train/clutch etc. The boxster S would be awesome with 50-70 hp more. Some of the mods here are ridiculously expensive compared to what I can get for my Subaru STI. It's primarely because these mods are coming from the guys who work on the 911s/turbos. I'm not talking about labor here.... I'm just talking the price of these kits.

PorscheDoc · 09-29-2006, 07:34 AM

Just to clear up some misconceptions:

A 3.4L engine in a boxster puts down roughly 280rwhp on our dyno. The supercharged S (stage I) puts down just over 280hp to the rear wheels. A new 997C2S puts down right at 300rwhp on our dyno. The performance is there, there isn't an extra wear and tear on the engine because of the supercharger. If you are going to go out and power brake the car and do burn outs, well then expect some more wear and tear on the car, but that's due to the driver. Doing an engine transplant is not a cheap option...so this was the alternative we came up with. For the extra money it will cost you to do an engine transplant, you are getting zero-very little horsepower gains over a supercharger kit.

There are a lot of guys throwing out numbers about a $50k new boxster and not wanting to modify it. That is fine, but realize that is for a new boxster off the showroom floor. Also realize that the 986 boxster is now almost 10 years old, and used prices are not expensive by any means. You can pick them up for $20k easily for the older models. So you pick up an affordable car, and modify it and have an incredible machine for under 30-35k. Not a bad deal in my opinion for the performance it is putting down. We can hold on to what things cost when they were knew, but also realize that an automobile is a depreciating asset. Hell the 944 Turbo could be optioned out to over $40k (back in the 80's) when it was new as well....

at 280rwhp, the boxster S is an absolute blast to drive. Look for the upcoming article on it (and the 2.5L boxster supercharged) in excellence and european car magazine.....

JP-s-in st. louis · 09-29-2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PorscheDoc

Just to clear up some misconceptions:

at 280rwhp, the boxster S is an absolute blast to drive. Look for the upcoming article on it (and the 2.5L boxster supercharged) in excellence and european car magazine.....

285 RWHP 350 or so crank hp!!! I have the dyno report Karl

WOW is it fun! Anyone in the Seattle area can e-mail me and I will take them for a ride! The S/C can not be herd over 2500 RPM's so do not worry about the S/C wine...I was a little disappointed by the end result HP number but after driving it surprises you how fast it really is..

Josh

PorscheDoc · 09-29-2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP-s-in st. louis

285 RWHP 350 or so crank hp!!! I have the dyno report Karl

WOW is it fun! Anyone in the Seattle area can e-mail me and I will take them for a ride! The S/C can not be herd over 2500 RPM's so do not worry about the S/C wine...I was a little disappointed by the end result HP number but after driving it surprises you how fast it really is..

Josh

Enjoy the car JP, I know you haven't had it for a long time. Hopefully it was worth it. Look in excellence and european car magazine in a few months, you will see a nice supercharged Black Boxster S