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Old 03-03-2018, 11:56 AM   #1
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ROW Flash, and Now Car Is Undrivable!

Sent my ECU, Immobilizer, and keys to ECU Doctors for a ROW reflash. They gave it a clean bill of health, and I reinstalled everything this morning.

Upon starting the car, the engine surges repeatedly, once about every second, from idle to about 2000 rpm. Up, down, up, down - goes on for minutes, with no change. Pushing the accelerator during this time has zero effect - even floored, the engine continues to surge, just as described before. The car cannot be driven.

-No- CEL lights or codes whatsoever indicated.

My question: Is there some sort of "reacquainted" deal that the car needs to go thru upon the reinstallation of an ECU so to get back together and sorted one to the other?

Obviously, during the period of time that the ECU was out of the car, the battery was disconnected, and I am 1001% certain that I reinstalled everything exactly as it came out - photos taken during the disassembly were used for reassembly, even though I do not see any reasonable way that the connectors for either the immobilizer or the ECU could be installed incorrectly.

I am at a complete loss here - Anyone ever experienced anything similar?

Thanks - DM




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Old 03-03-2018, 01:03 PM   #2
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Is it possible that they programmed it for an automatic car instead of a manual?
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Old 03-03-2018, 01:23 PM   #3
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I think a call to ECU Doc's is in order... Do you have any other engine/exhaust mods? Maybe the flash didn't take properly?
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Old 03-03-2018, 02:24 PM   #4
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If you haven't already, The Egas system needs to be remapped. Turn the key on for one minute, then off for 10 seconds then start the car

Last edited by 911monty; 03-03-2018 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 03-03-2018, 03:22 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by 911monty View Post
If you haven't already, The Egas system needs to be remapped. Turn the key on for one minute, then off for 10 seconds then start the car
+1 on this. You need to do this to set the accelerator pedal.
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Old 03-03-2018, 04:37 PM   #6
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Success!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewArt View Post
+1 on this. You need to do this to set the accelerator pedal.
That did it! I had figured that it was some sort of double-secret probation deal like that, and I followed your instructions to the letter, which did the trick!

911monty and NewArt, I owe you both a beer!

With MANY thanks for the vast knowledge base available on this forum - DM

P.S. - Now that it has been sorted, might I be so bold to ask how you knew of this "trick"? I did not find it in my Bentley's manual, and I don't recall seeing anything like this in the Owner's Manual.
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Old 03-03-2018, 04:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave80GTSi View Post
That did it! I had figured that it was some sort of double-secret probation deal like that, and I followed your instructions to the letter, which did the trick!

911monty and NewArt, I owe you both a beer!

With MANY thanks for the vast knowledge base available on this forum - DM

P.S. - Now that it has been sorted, might I be so bold to ask how you knew of this "trick"? I did not find it in my Bentley's manual, and I don't recall seeing anything like this in the Owner's Manual.
The answer is in your response. In 20 years there is very little that has not happened previously and is why the general response of "DO A SEARCH" is the predominant response. The answer is most likely to be found in this vast database....
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Old 03-03-2018, 06:01 PM   #8
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Now that I know what I was looking for, I found this (appears to be a) TSB via a web search.

Copied and posted here for posterity.

-----------------

Printed in Germany – 14, 2003

Note on adaptation

The DME control module must perform a learning and adaptation
routine for the throttle adjustment unit if:
♦The power supply to the DME control module is interrupted
♦The DME control module plugs are disconnected
♦A new DME control module is installed
♦The throttle adjustment unit is replaced
♦The DME is programmed.

To do this:

1. Switch the ignition on for 1 minute without starting the engine.
Do not actuate the accelerator pedal (for instance, make sure
that there is not a carpet pressing on the pedal).
2. Switch off ignition for at least 10 seconds.

The following conditions must also be observed, otherwise learning
is not possible:
♦Vehicle is stationary
♦Battery positive voltage between 10 V and 16 V
♦Engine temperature between 5 C and 100 C
♦Intake air temperature between 10 C and 100

---------

All's well that ends well, I suppose, but I do now find it somewhat curious that I had no such drama recently when I replaced my battery, during which time the battery was out of the car for many hours.
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Old 03-03-2018, 06:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave80GTSi View Post
Now that I know what I was looking for, I found this (appears to be a) TSB via a web search.

Copied and posted here for posterity.

-----------------

Printed in Germany 14, 2003

Note on adaptation

The DME control module must perform a learning and adaptation
routine for the throttle adjustment unit if:
♦The power supply to the DME control module is interrupted
♦The DME control module plugs are disconnected
♦A new DME control module is installed
♦The throttle adjustment unit is replaced
♦The DME is programmed.

To do this:

1. Switch the ignition on for 1 minute without starting the engine.
Do not actuate the accelerator pedal (for instance, make sure
that there is not a carpet pressing on the pedal).
2. Switch off ignition for at least 10 seconds.

The following conditions must also be observed, otherwise learning
is not possible:
♦Vehicle is stationary
♦Battery positive voltage between 10 V and 16 V
♦Engine temperature between 5 C and 100 C
♦Intake air temperature between 10 C and 100

---------

All's well that ends well, I suppose, but I do now find it somewhat curious that I had no such drama recently when I replaced my battery, during which time the battery was out of the car for many hours.
Duh, forgot about that procedure. It should be followed anytime the battery is disconnected. It is also in the owners manual. Frankly, a note, or brief instruction sheet should have been included with your new toys.... I would still make that call.
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Old 03-03-2018, 06:52 PM   #10
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Thanks for posting this instruction sheet. Although many of us hands-on people know this, there are surely twice as many here that don’t ! Glad that it worked for you.
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:39 AM   #11
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Glad you got this sorted...
I recently replaced the timing belt, water pump and accessory belts on my 2002 4Runner. During the work, I had disconnected the battery. The battery was disconnected for about 10 days while I performed the job (amongst many unrelated chores). Upon getting everything done, I started the car and it barely ran for a bit and then died. I tried to start it again but it wouldn't start. My first thought is I must have screwed up the timing during the new belt installation. I tore stuff back apart and found my timing to be spot on. I reached in and tried to start the car and it started easily and idled smoothly! Given I didn't have the radiator connected yet, I turned the car off and buttoned everything back up.

I did a web search and low and behold, like the Boxster, the 4Runner looses its smarts when battery is disconnected for extended periods. I did not have an adaptation routine like the Boxster but if I would have just fought it and kept it running when I initially started it, it would have smoothed out within a minute or two. So now I know....
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Old 03-04-2018, 10:11 AM   #12
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It sounds like you have done a remap but have never done the larger throttle body? As if you had you would have had to do the throttle adaptation then. It seems an odd way round to do the mods.
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Old 03-04-2018, 11:13 AM   #13
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So how does the car run with the ROW map?
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Old 03-04-2018, 04:47 PM   #14
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Stop the presses - Not right yet !

Yesterday's "Success" message as I posted here was based upon starting the car in the garage and revving it a bit. Seemed perfectly normal.

Today was my first opportunity to take the car out on the road. Just to be sure, I repeated the "fix" again for a second time as I posted earlier - this time I waited for 1-1/2 minutes with the key on, and then for 30 more seconds with the key off. Car started right up, revved like normal, and I thought that I was all set.

Drive for a mile an a half at slow residential neighborhood speeds, and again all is well.

Until.

With no warning (cruising at maybe 30 mph in 3rd), the throttle becomes non-responsive. At anything beyond about a quarter throttle, the engine drops to idle. I was able to coax it back home, basically idling in second gear. No further time to experiment tonight. As before, no codes nor CEL's.

My question now: Does the car require a learning period of some sort, so that it again learns how to play nicely with the ECU?

Why would it have been perfectly fine for the first couple of minutes, and then it all turns purple?

So, as before, the car is currently undrivable.

DM
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Old 03-04-2018, 04:50 PM   #15
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It sounds like you have done a remap but have never done the larger throttle body? As if you had you would have had to do the throttle adaptation then. It seems an odd way round to do the mods.
Deleting the secondary oxygen sensor CEL warning.
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Old 03-04-2018, 05:44 PM   #16
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Possible idea?

Maybe it is just too cold here:

♦Engine temperature between 5 C and 100 C
♦Intake air temperature between 10 C and 100

Engine was cold, temps were about 37 degrees F / 3 degrees C.

Next move (tomorrow): Let the engine idle in the garage for a few minutes or so, in order to raise the temp of the air within the engine compartment. Then do the above procedure for a third time.

.... Seems like it certainly should not be this hard ...
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Old 03-04-2018, 09:48 PM   #17
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Weird. I would guess something isn't right. No real reason for any of that to be happening. The relearn isn't that big of a deal, basically just a simple reset. You shouldn't need to do it over and over.

Have you done anything else to the car while the ECU was away?
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Old 03-05-2018, 04:00 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Dave80GTSi View Post
Deleting the secondary oxygen sensor CEL warning.
On a UK car for the facelift 986 at least we still have pre and post cat O2 sensor. There is though only one pair of cats. You can though map out the post cat O2 sensor aftermarket.
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:30 AM   #19
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Pausing To Take A Deep Breath

Since my next window of opportunity to twiddle with this car will be next weekend, I now have plenty of time to take a step back and to think thru just what might be going on.

I am now of the belief that what I am seeing is not directly related to the ROW reflash, and that this work was done properly. Rather, my current hypothesis is that this is a consequence of the several months’ worth of time that the car spent with the battery disconnected, and the resulting need for the accelerator pedal to become properly reacquainted with the car’s electronics.

As a possible secondary clue, when I first hooked the battery up again this past Saturday, I surprisingly noted that none of my interior, nor my front / rear trunk lights, were illuminated.

The two (2) times that I have done the re-learning procedure this past weekend which I have posted above have both occurred with a cold engine and with the ambient (unheated) garage temperatures in the 30’s F. That is, below the noted 5 degree C temperature threshold as noted in the TSB above. For the second (latest) case, it now makes a little bit of sense to me that I calibrated the pedal to the car at too-cold temperatures. Then, as I started to drive around, the engine temperature slowly began to warm up, and after a mile or two the pedal developed confusion as to what it was supposed to properly do since it was now encountering some new “unfamiliar” warm temperatures.

If the above hypothesis seems correct (and I will be the very first one to admit here that it does seem completely unexpected), then the way to check this idea is to start the car next weekend and let it idle in the garage until a proper engine operating temperature has been reached. At that point, shut off the car and let the engine temperature warm up everything under the engine cover so to fall within the temperature guidelines noted above. At that point, re-do the learning operation for a third time, and see if that solves it. But if not, then the ROW work would become the next suspect to examine.

Based upon the above thought process, it now strikes me that anyone who lives in a cold climate, say, our Canadian prairie friends, who might disconnect their batteries for a several month long winter storage period must therefore have to go thru some sort of a secret ritual every spring so to get all of the electronics together and on the same page.

So, with this thinking out loud as the background, does any of the above ring true to anyone who disconnects their batteries for several months, and then tries to get their car rolling again once their seasonal temperatures are just above freezing?

Thanks - DM
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:31 AM   #20
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On a UK car for the facelift 986 at least we still have pre and post cat O2 sensor. There is though only one pair of cats. You can though map out the post cat O2 sensor aftermarket.
Yup, completely understood. No cats.

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