How to Properly Use Anti-Seize

[Need_for_speed]

I've searched this forum and others for guidance on how to properly use anti-seize, but I'm still a little confused and hope the collective wisdom here can help me clear things up. My understanding is that anti-seize should be used whenever we join two dissimilar metals, like aluminum and steel -- for example, aluminum brake calipers and steel caliper bolts. I also understand that anti-seize should be used whenever rust or corrosion is a potential issue.

However, what is the effect of anti-seize on torque values? I've seen recommendations that torque values should be reduced by as much as 30 percent when anti-seize is used on fasteners. Does Porsche recommend the use of anti-seize on various fasteners, and if so, do their torque values take this into account?

I'm getting ready to do some exhaust work, and want to make sure I'm fastening everything up per factory spec. Appreciate any insight.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Need_for_speed

I've searched this forum and others for guidance on how to properly use anti-seize, but I'm still a little confused and hope the collective wisdom here can help me clear things up. My understanding is that anti-seize should be used whenever we join two dissimilar metals, like aluminum and steel -- for example, aluminum brake calipers and steel caliper bolts. I also understand that anti-seize should be used whenever rust or corrosion is a potential issue.

However, what is the effect of anti-seize on torque values? I've seen recommendations that torque values should be reduced by as much as 30 percent when anti-seize is used on fasteners. Does Porsche recommend the use of anti-seize on various fasteners, and if so, do their torque values take this into account?

I'm getting ready to do some exhaust work, and want to make sure I'm fastening everything up per factory spec. Appreciate any insight.

If you read the white paper published by ARP, the bolt people, the accuracy of applied torque can become quite inaccurate towards the low side due to friction if some type of lubricant is not applied to the fastener in question. Most astute engine builders use something like ARP's Ultra Torque lubricant specifically for this reason. In my shop, we use various types of antiseize and apply the factory torque specs. The anti seize will function as a lubricant during the process and actually help you achieve the correct torque. If you are working on the exhaust, consider using a high temperature anti seize made from nickel, which works very well in this application.

[rfuerst911sc]

If you have never used anti-seize the first thing you will learn is it magically gets everywhere...... your clothes/hair/face/shoes etc. I believe it is a living organism
Been using it for a very long time on everything from lug nuts to exhaust bolts and everything in between . The phrase the bigger the blob the better the job does NOT apply here , just a thin coat on the threads is enough . I like to use the copper based for high heat areas like exhaust or brake caliper bolts but have used the silver also with no apparent harm .

I have never had any nut or bolt back out or come loose on its own because of the application of anti-seize . Torque to proper specs and you are good to go . Where you will really appreciate the use is 5 years later when you have to remove whatever you applied it to . I know growing up in N.Y. ( rust ) it was a life/knuckle saver !

[Need_for_speed]

Thanks JFP! High heat anti-seize is on the shopping list.

[Need_for_speed]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

If you have never used anti-seize the first thing you will learn is it magically gets everywhere...... your clothes/hair/face/shoes etc. I believe it is a living organism

No kidding!

[PaulE]

The ability of anti-seize to get on everything is a law of nature. Just like duct tape sticks to nothing as well as itself! I was once putting a dab of anti-seize on a small screw, with the brush in the bottle cap, and was working over the open bottle of anti-seize. Of course I dropped said screw into the bottle! What a mess to retrieve that screw!

[stephen wilson]

Yeah, that's a nasty gag they do at work, put a glob on a door knob or under toolbox drawer pulls.......

[rfuerst911sc]

Not to sidetrack the OP's discussion but today I had to pull the steering column from one of my John Deere garden tractors . Anti-seize I applied two years ago to mounting screws that hold the column in place ended up all over me ! It's like the borg........ resistance is futile

[lkchris]

Originally Posted by Need_for_speed

Thanks JFP! High heat anti-seize is on the shopping list.

Make that Optimoly TA, then.

It's what Porsche specifies for lug bolts and it is a high temp product. Recently used it for muffler change. And always for motorcycle exhaust joints.

[356Guy]

I rarely use the stuff. The only time I pay attention to the lubricant is on highly stressed items like rod bolts and main caps.

[jakeru]

It's a life saver to prevent galling and corrosion. The only reason they don't use the stuff at the factory when assembling the cars new, as far as I can gather, is to save $ on labor. It takes time to properly apply the stuff - you'll want a thin and even coating for best results.

I like to apply in a few strategic places on the fastener, and then smoosh it deeply and uniformly into the threads with my fingers. I usually aim to get full coverage on all the threaded surface of a fastener. 'Spotty coverage' isn't as desirable. The smooshing process takes some force, and is a bit hard on the fingers, though. I'd avoid putting it under the bolt head if you're concerned about the fastener loosening. For example, avoid putting it on conical faces of lug bolts. Put it on the threads only. Any corroding areas though, can be protected by a thin coating of anti-seize. Even the outer, non-contact surfaces of the bolt head. So if you want extra corrosion protection under the bolt head, you can put it there, but usually, I wouldn't put it there, (or just put a very thin amount, if any, to protect from corrosion). If you want full-on corrosion protection, and exhaust nuts/bolts/washers are a good example, you can be more liberal with the stuff. You can even coat both sides of washers, the whole surfaces of the bolts, and the nuts, in that case! Exhaust fasteners are very demanding for corrosion protection, and a more liberal than usual amount of anti-seize is *very* appropriate for them.

Sometimes, you can get nearly as good results and avoid the finger smooshing by taking two fasteners with same thread diameter and pitch, and sort of rubbing the threads together. Hard to describe, but have the bolts point 180 degrees apart, mate the threads together, and make one fastener orbit around the other while keeping the threads in contact. You'll need to to go around several times to get it right and may still need to redistribute the stuff to get an even layer. If you get too much on one fastener, this is also a good trick to retidtribute some of it to a dry fastener. I think a good test of appropriate thickness is if you gently rub it with a paper towel, not a huge amount of the stuff will come off. No globs on the paper towel. Light smear on the paper towel would be expected.

I tend to prefer silver, for appearance reasons, on the dip-spun hardware, since it's a similar color match. I've had it harden and crumble only on a turbocharger turbine housing, which had ungodly temperatures. Copper was the solution there.

On overtorquring, my feeling is if you've stripped a fastener from overtorquing, it's probably more an issue of having the wrong torque spec than it is of using anti-seize. You can develop a feel and notice the fastener start to yield. Porsche Boxster fasteners are generally all high-strength steel parts, (e.g., lots of metric grade 10.9 hardware), and have fairly high torque specs. Grade 8.8 hardware, seemingly common on many other makes, would be unusually soft on a Porsche Boxster. Maybe just because porsches are extreme engineered for performance?

As others have mentioned, it's also messy stuff. You can wear thin rubber gloves, but they will get torn up after doing a bunch of anti-seize smooshing. You'll need to clean your hands or gloves up frequently when working with the stuff. Even handling anti-seized fasteners can transfer some to your hands or gloves. Like I said before, it's labor intensive.

It's good practice to also clean the fastener very thorough before applying the anti-seize. My favorite for that is brake parts cleaner in a spray can. The acetone will eat up rubber gloves, even nitrile. I recently discovered than some chlorinated brake parts cleaners (not available in all states.. banned in California, I believe) clean just as well as the acetone solvent, and yet the nitrile gloves will last. If there is any hard corrosion to clean up, you may need to also wire brush it. Solvent clean, wire brush, thin anti-seize application, you can make older fasteners perform better than most new dry-assembled fasteners. It just will never rust with the anti-size. There is no capillary space for the water to creep into. And even if water did get there, the zinc or sacrificial material in the anti-seize will corrode first, protecting the solid metal parts. (Sort of like how the zinc anode on the bottom of an aluminum boat hull protects the hull from any corrosion.)

[JFP in PA]

A small ultra sonic cleaning bath is ideal for cleaning fasteners, we have two in the shop that run practically all day. They not only remove grease and oil, they also are very good at knocking light corrosion off as well. A few min. and everything comes out looking like new.

[Need_for_speed]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

A small ultra sonic cleaning bath is ideal for cleaning fasteners, we have two in the shop that run practically all day. They not only remove grease and oil, they also are very good at knocking light corrosion off as well. A few min. and everything comes out looking like new.

Thanks JFP, now I'm going to have to buy an ultrasonic cleaner because I'm a clean freak. I cannot do any work on my car without cleaning everything I take apart, to include wheel well liners, etc., stuff that no one will EVER see. But if I don't do it....

[356Guy]

Have you seen what a dry ice blaster can do? I want one for a day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgJ7nLyu_rQ

[PaulE]

You can get a small ultrasonic cleaner for cheap at Bed, Bath & Beyond for cheap and they always have a 20% off coupon. I have one and use it for bicycle chains and other small pieces. It also works for jewelry. Nuts and bolts are about all from a car that will fit in it.

So, back to anti-seize. Should I be putting it on the threads of my lug bolts? The last time I used it for wheels was for the wire wheel splines on my Austin Healey 3000. It did a much better job than grease which dried out and let the wheel and hub splines corrode together.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by PaulE

You can get a small ultrasonic cleaner for cheap at Bed, Bath & Beyond for cheap and they always have a 20% off coupon. I have one and use it for bicycle chains and other small pieces. It also works for jewelry. Nuts and bolts are about all from a car that will fit in it.

So, back to anti-seize. Should I be putting it on the threads of my lug bolts? The last time I used it for wheels was for the wire wheel splines on my Austin Healey 3000. It did a much better job than grease which dried out and let the wheel and hub splines corrode together.

Yes, but like with all anti seize applications, don't go nuts with it. A small dab on the beginning of the treads will spread down the rest of the fastener as it threads in.

People generally fall into one of two categories with anti seize: Either they don't use it at all, or they coat everything with a half an inch of it and then wonder why it got all over the place. A little goes a long way..........

You can find really nice ultra sonic parts cleaners from around $40 up to over $250, with most of the difference being size, timer controls, etc. This one is about $60 on Amazon, is all stainless and comes with a lift out basket for small parts:

[spendy]

What is a good liquid to use for cleaning h/w in the ultrasonic cleaner?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by spendy

What is a good liquid to use for cleaning h/w in the ultrasonic cleaner?

THere are a pretty wide selection of products ranging from aqueous based detergents to organic cleaning fluids. For the most part, a simple low foaming detergent and water works just fine. Amazon and others list a pretty good selection.

[Need_for_speed]

Originally Posted by 356Guy

Have you seen what a dry ice blaster can do? I want one for a day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgJ7nLyu_rQ

Omg yes, but I cannot find anyone near me that does it. I'd have them do the entire engine and undercarriage. But at the moment, I'm shopping for an ultrasonic cleaner. I wonder if Amazon is seeing this spike in ultrasonic cleaner sales...

[jakeru]

This thread is worthless without pics, so here are some I took today! Below is a picture of a wheel lug bolt that is a little on the dry side, after removal:


Below shows after anti-seize "top-up":


This is the look I go for, in general, when I anti-seize a bolt or screw - not too heavy, evenly distributed on the threads.