IMS Fix

[Glasgow 911SC]

Some more opinions from across the pond.

911uk.com - Porsche Forum, Specialist, Insurance, Car For Sale, Finance, Parts & Service : View topic - IMS upgrade

[mikefocke]

Tool kits are frequently available on eBay (Search " LN IMS tool kit"). Just now 4 of them. Be sure of the one you get has all the parts and is for the bearing you intend to use. After use, sell it on.

[Gelbster]

Mike makes a great suggestion because these LN kits are rare in Europe. A canny Scot could actually make a profit on the import,use and resale of a complete kit ?
Yes, he could probably buy a k/o kit from Alibaba but it's resale value would be questionable.
The links to one rather non-tech U.K. Porsche site made dismal reading. Lots of snippy commentary,little technical content. Did not seem to be a group that did their own mechanical work or read beyond their own group. Piston Heads is more tech oriented?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

Mike makes a great suggestion because these LN kits are rare in Europe. A canny Scot could actually make a profit on the import,use and resale of a complete kit ?
Yes, he could probably buy a k/o kit from Alibaba but it's resale value would be questionable.
The links to one rather non-tech U.K. Porsche site made dismal reading. Lots of snippy commentary,little technical content. Did not seem to be a group that did their own mechanical work or read beyond their own group. Piston Heads is more tech oriented?

I stopped reading when the suspect engine didn't have much on the magnetic drain plug before doing the IMS, which would imply the sump was not dropped and a proper pre qualification completed. If I had a nickel for every blown engine that was initially blamed on the IMS and later confirmed to have been from another fault, I could retire early............

[Gelbster]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

I stopped reading when the suspect engine didn't have much on the magnetic drain plug before doing the IMS, which would imply the sump was not dropped and a proper pre qualification completed. If I had a nickel for every blown engine that was initially blamed on the IMS and later confirmed to have been from another fault, I could retire early............

Worse is an engine when they replace the IMSB ,discover other problems in that process, slap it together w/o addressing any other problem and flip the car.
I bought one !
The only reason I commented earlier was to alert noobs not to follow the 'advice' given when it contradicts expert(not me) experience.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

I stopped reading when the suspect engine didn't have much on the magnetic drain plug before doing the IMS, which would imply the sump was not dropped and a proper pre qualification completed. If I had a nickel for every blown engine that was initially blamed on the IMS and later confirmed to have been from another fault, I could retire early............

Please don't do that and leave us!!
Your knowledge and help is incredible

[Smallblock454]

Out of the machinery's Handbook or bible to most Machinist and Mechanical Engineers.

One question: how old is this book?

And one idea that seems to be supressed from the market by - i don't know who.



Regards, Markus

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by Smallblock454

One question: how old is this book?

100+ years old, with many various Editions/Owners obviously, but essentially the same concepts bud. Fascinating literature

Edit: sorry, to be precise it is 125 years old (https://www.amazon.com/Machinerys-Handbook-Collectors-First-Replica/dp/0831133708)

[Gelbster]

It is many years old and Casper seem to have disappeared.
The Solution seems to be the only IMSB with a plug. I suspect it may be patented - otherwise the roller bearing kit guys would have included it. I thought of doing a homebrew version but could not find a "freeze plug" the correct size. Imagine pressing one that was slightly too large int place...... With a 52041RS bearing, the problem is solved?or 62041RS

[Smallblock454]

The only solution is to THINK!

Regards, Markus

[Steve Tinker]

Originally Posted by Smallblock454

The only solution is to THINK!

Ha Markus, Markus, Markus... I just wonder just how many thinking hours have already been consumed over this particular problem??

Especially when it happens to the you.
You would have spent many hours thinking:

"why me Lord" or

"why the hell did I buy this damned thing in the first place" or

"how the hell am I going to afford to pay for this" or

"my roller is worth HOW MUCH?" or

"I wish I had attended Raby's engine assembly class".

[Smallblock454]

Originally Posted by Steve Tinker

Ha Markus, Markus, Markus... I just wonder just how many thinking hours have already been consumed over this particular problem??

Especially when it happens to the you.
You would have spent many hours thinking:

"why me Lord" or

"why the hell did I buy this damned thing in the first place" or

"how the hell am I going to afford to pay for this" or

"my roller is worth HOW MUCH?" or

"I wish I had attended Raby's engine assembly class".

As you might know: every second counts.

Besides that: maybe more than you might think. And maybe, but just maybe: i'm not a guy that tries to patent every stupid idea so it's not worth to think any longer. Also i'm not a guy that tries to fear people and make money out of it. Nice business model by the way. But not my kind of style.

And best if all: i've seen a bunch of disassembled M96 and M97 engines in person.

Regards, Markus

[Duezzer]

I have had many vehicles that have a chance that the motor will fail in, all these had inherent issues from factory. Some were cam chain issues, some were valve train issues, some were oiling issues, some were crank bearing issues - They all had things that were just a bit wonky with them.
If you go onto the sites for those engines there is much less fear mongering. All these vehicles would take about $6-12k to replace to motor.

I suspect because these are Porsche's that this happens - or people think they have a fix and want to help others (or fill their pockets)

I have read a lot of the UK/EUR forums and the main statement is these are not the best built motor but if you take the outer seal off the IMS bearing your failure rate plummets.

Besides doing that one should really look at doing a tear down and full rebuild with a stronger bearing system.

I do not know what the answer is but I do know I have a car with a motor reliability issue.

I drive it - I love it - some days I worry about it

I am getting to the point where I will no longer be reading anything about IMS bearing - It is starting to become........ irritating.

Anyone look at increasing the oil pump output? Wonder if that would help? How would one increase the oil pump output?

Oh God - now I am in on it.

Lord save us all.

[paulofto]

Originally Posted by Duezzer

Anyone look at increasing the oil pump output? Wonder if that would help? How would one increase the oil pump output?

Oh God - now I am in on it.

Lord save us all.

Yeah, higher oil pressure and volume!! That's the ticket!! You've done it now Duezzer. This could start a whole new string of theories and conjecture. Maybe ANOTHER oil pump at the flywheel end of the shaft feeding just the IMS and a secondary oil sump holding another 9 Litres. Of course the oil used would be critical. Only ambergris oil from virgin sperm whales. Yes, that's the answer. Finally a solution to the IMS problem.

Thanks Duezzer!

[jcslocum]

It all gets a bit tiring, but these are the new folks to the Boxster asking. Maybe we need a sticky to make a listing of must read IMS threads.

Just my .002

[Gelbster]

Originally Posted by jcslocum

It all gets a bit tiring, but these are the new folks to the Boxster asking. Maybe we need a sticky to make a listing of must read IMS threads.

Just my .002

Agreed because we need new ideas and info - but NEW ones !

[10/10ths]

......Just replace the damn IMS and call it a day.

Why ask "why?"

What difference does it make why they fail?

All that matters is that they DO fail.

So, you either live with the consequences, or spend the money to install a replacement.

Done.

Now get busy living.

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by 10/10ths

So, you either live with the consequences, or spend the money to install a replacement.

Or stop worrying so much and never replace it, other than maybe at clutch change, and never have an issue like 92% of all single row bearing cars and 99%+ of all double row bearing cars.

Already done.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Or stop worrying so much and never replace it, other than maybe at clutch change, and never have an issue like 92% of all single row bearing cars and 99%+ of all double row bearing cars.

Already done.

this seems like the right place to try to stir-up the hornet's nest.

As some of you may've noticed, I'm elbow-deep in a clutch job. I decided to do the IMS while I was in here, but now I'm 2nd-guessing myself. Help me think this through, will ya? haha

My car is an '03 S, with 148k miles on it. OF which I've only done about 2000 since acquiring it in March this year. I have no history on the car prior to my ownership. So without having so much as a hint of anything wrong with the IMS, I'm hesitant to throw another $800 into this project-creep that I have going on here.

I've found on Pelican's site, an IMS "update kit" for either single or dual row, priced at $189.. https://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=PEL-IMS-1&SuperCat=Y&SVSVSI=1052&catalog_description=Pelican%20Parts%20M%39%36%20In termediate%20Shaft%20Bearing%20%28IMS%29%20Update% 20Kit%2C%20for%20either%20Single%20or%20Dual%20Row %20IMS%20Bearing%2E

Does anyone have any experience with this? IS this a "good enough" option for u purposes?

[mikefocke]

The IMS is getting oil from immersion at rest and oil mist when in operation. Not from an oil pump unless some aftermarket bearing assembly has been fitted.

Ball bearings getting too much oil especially at startup is a very bad thing.