Thoughts on using r-comp tires with newer tires on driver side and older tires on pax

[steved0x]

When I was at Roebling Road raceway one time I was talking with a guy that ran some sort of Toyo R-Comp tires, maybe the RR? (It looks like a slick)

He runs his tires using the following pattern:

Mounts up his tires - and halfway through their life he throws away the passenger side tires, moves the driver side tires to the passenger side, and then buys 2 new tires for the driver side. He then runs until the passenger side tires are shot, so he throws them away and does the cycle again.

So at all times he has got 2 newer tires on the driver side, and two older tires on the passenger side.

He said that works because most road courses are clockwise with right hand turns and so the driver side tires get the most abuse, so he likes to have a newer tire on that side.

I recently got a tire trailer that came with a set of Boxster S 17 wheels with Toyo R888 r-comp tires, and that driver used that same pattern of tire usage. So I have 2 nearly new driver side tires, and two passenger side tires with maybe 1/2-1/3 left of their life.

I drove on them a few sessions at the FIRM in FL and they were awesome!

http://trackattackapp.com/replay_share.html?raceid=dfef5498-8a2a-447c-b56e-63ed0d343de6&lapid=a71cbed3-8aa0-4c84-8cf3-9bac5efba61c

But recently I was reading how some R-Comp tires loose grip and start to fall off, even though they may look good and have decent tread depth left.

So in a max braking situation, one front might not grip as well as the other. I guess that would just cause the ABS to come on?

In Max acceleration I guess one tire might spin a little earlier than the other? I barely spin the tires anyway.

In a steady state turn where the suspension is loaded up, say a right turn, the two (matched) driver side tires are doing the majority of the work... In a left turn it is the passenger tires doing the work.

So it sounds like it might not be a concern? Several folks seem to use this pattern?

Does anybody else rotate their tires like this?

[Racer Boy]

I've not seen that pattern used before. You want to match the axles with the same tires, that way you won't have uneven traction side-to-side. You mentioned that as far as braking, and you are right to wonder about that. ABS corrects lock-up, but can't compensate for uneven traction. You want to avoid having to rely on ABS in the first place.

Another thing to consider is that as the tires wear, the diameter gets smaller. If you mount the new tires on one side of the car, then the differential will have to work all the time because the tires aren't the same circumference. It's not a large difference, but it's something to avoid.

IMHO, it's seems like a bad idea to run new tires on one side of the car. If it were me, I'd put the new ones on the same axle. It seems kind of lazy to not switch the tires around to keep the wear as even as possible. Most people that are really into track stuff probably have a racing-style jack and either an air- or electric-impact wrench, so it's no big deal to change tires easily. The fact that the tires sizes are different between the front and rear complicates things a little bit, but you should still be able to maximize the tire life by switching them around.

It must be nice to be able to afford to throw tires away halfway through their life!

[j.fro]

If I were to to that, I would also flip the tires on the rims so the less used inside edge becomes the outside edge when moved to the passenger side.

[Dlirium]

I ran the same set of Toyo R-888's for 2 seasons. Excellent grip and very predictable for the 1.5 seasons. Then, as the heat cycles added up, they REALLY got greasy quickly. Still had tread on them, but changed them out because they lost their "edge"...Ready for this season with new tires!

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by Racer Boy

It must be nice to be able to afford to throw tires away halfway through their life!

I agree, to start this pattern it seems like you throw away 2 tires with a lot of potential useful life. Iwondered how a person ever gets to a "starting" state for this pattern - if you started with 4 new tires, it seems like they would all wear out at around the same time...

Originally Posted by Racer Boy

Another thing to consider is that as the tires wear, the diameter gets smaller. If you mount the new tires on one side of the car, then the differential will have to work all the time because the tires aren't the same circumference. It's not a large difference, but it's something to avoid.

I didn't think about that either... If you stack two of my tires together you can see the difference. it is small but you can see it...

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by Dlirium

I ran the same set of Toyo R-888's for 2 seasons. Excellent grip and very predictable for the 1.5 seasons. Then, as the heat cycles added up, they REALLY got greasy quickly. Still had tread on them, but changed them out because they lost their "edge"...Ready for this season with new tires!

Are you still on the R888 or did you move to another tire? Compared with the NT01 or the Maxxis Victra RC-1, the Toyo seems to be a fair bit more expensive...

If I was buying a set of R-comp tires for my first set, I would probably go with the Nitto (and try to time it with one of the DTD $100 off $400 sales) since a lot of folks seem to use it. I am intrigued by the Maxxis though...

I think I will just buy 2 new R888 and run that set until it wears down.

Do you/did you heat cycle yours?

Steve

[The Radium King]

crazy - just don't turn left. better to run square and swap front to back i'd say. i'd rather deal w increasing understeer or oversteer as the tires heated, than have to deal with a car that only turns one direction well - chicanes would be SLOW. sounds like a nascar technique to me.

[Dlirium]

Originally Posted by steved0x

Are you still on the R888 or did you move to another tire? Compared with the NT01 or the Maxxis Victra RC-1, the Toyo seems to be a fair bit more expensive...

If I was buying a set of R-comp tires for my first set, I would probably go with the Nitto (and try to time it with one of the DTD $100 off $400 sales) since a lot of folks seem to use it. I am intrigued by the Maxxis though...

I think I will just buy 2 new R888 and run that set until it wears down.

Do you/did you heat cycle yours?

Steve

I changed to the Potenza RE-71r's (rules for AX changed from a 100 compound to a 200 compound for my class). I did not have the tires heat cycled, just did it on the track myself. They did need a little heat to get the best out of them. Not the best AX tires cold, but loved them on the track.

VERY noisy (i don't care), and as you said, rather expensive. If my boxster was a dedicated track car, I'd probably buy them again. But with the AX use, I'm hoping the RE-71r's are a good compromise...

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by Dlirium

I changed to the Potenza RE-71r's (rules for AX changed from a 100 compound to a 200 compound for my class). I did not have the tires heat cycled, just did it on the track myself. They did need a little heat to get the best out of them. Not the best AX tires cold, but loved them on the track.

VERY noisy (i don't care), and as you said, rather expensive. If my boxster was a dedicated track car, I'd probably buy them again. But with the AX use, I'm hoping the RE-71r's are a good compromise...

The Re-71 is the hot tire right now in autocross that's for sure, apparently it has grip levels like an r-comp and heats up quick and gets to max grip in the context of short autocross runs.

This year for autocross I am going to run in STU with my Boxster on a set of 18" Cayman S replica wheels with 225/??/18 front (the standard size) and a set of 245/40/18 Hankook RS3 that I had kicking around, they actually came on the fronts when I bought the Cayman wheels... I am not competitive anyway but I have to keep 255 or under to run in STU so I will get a chance to use these tires that came with the wheels. If not for STU I would be in ASP (because of mods to my Boxster) and there is never anybody in that group....

[LAP1DOUG]

Originally Posted by steved0x

The Re-71 is the hot tire right now in autocross that's for sure, apparently it has grip levels like an r-comp and heats up quick and gets to max grip in the context of short autocross runs.

This year for autocross I am going to run in STU with my Boxster on a set of 18" Cayman S replica wheels with 225/??/18 front (the standard size) and a set of 245/40/18 Hankook RS3 that I had kicking around, they actually came on the fronts when I bought the Cayman wheels... I am not competitive anyway but I have to keep 255 or under to run in STU so I will get a chance to use these tires that came with the wheels. If not for STU I would be in ASP (because of mods to my Boxster) and there is never anybody in that group....

A local tire dealer who runs a lot of DE's claims that the RE-71R actually has a bit better grip than an NT-01, though certainly not up to A-7 standards. There are new sizes of RE-71R coming in the next month or two that our cars can run the max tire with. Of course that won't help with running SCCA the way they have handicapped any mid / rear engined car.

Back to your original point. All of our Southern road course tracks definitely wear out the left side much faster than the right side. If I'm using non-directional tires, I just swap them from side to side without flipping at about 1/2 to 3/4 life.

Good luck with STU.

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by LAP1DOUG

Back to your original point. All of our Southern road course tracks definitely wear out the left side much faster than the right side. If I'm using non-directional tires, I just swap them from side to side without flipping at about 1/2 to 3/4 life.

Good luck with STU.

Me too and for directional tires I flip them on the wheel and move them to the other side of the car to even out the wear.

I talked with Phil at Phil's Tire Service and got 2 new Toyo R888 - he too did not like the idea of mismatched tires in terms of heat cycles and diameters on the car either.

Steve