Dropped set screw into IMS bearing flange hole

[tonichristi]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

If you get that magnet near the engine you'll magnetize the IMSB. Doing this guarantees that any ferrous debris inside the engine will be sucked into the races of the bearing. This causes certain death.

I have seen this before, and we have to stay join the asses of distributors NOT to ship IMSBs with magnetic drain plugs.

Also, if you magnetize the lifters, they'll suck up debris and the engine will sound like a small diesel.

Magnets that are this powerful have mo place around an engine.

There;s a time when avoiding the issue creates other issues. I'd suck it up and take it apart.

Anyone who's ever played with magnets knows this is complete BS. A magnet will only magnetize a ferrous metal for a limited amount of time.
You can use the damn magnet and just wait a while before you start the engine.
Nothing is going to be permanently magnetized, drama queen. I missed; did you decide to quit posting on rennlist when you saw that no one cared if you stayed or went? What kind of narcissistic person posts something like that in the first place? That was a funny thread! Drama!

[boxster6354]

Been reading, interesting situation.

So I will throw this out for the heck of it.

You are able to get contact to the set screw with a small thin object and touch it, so how about build a cheap electromagnet?

Use some strong insulated wire and at one end attach two wires which go to the +/- of a battery?

Sort of like what we used to do in science class way back when :-)

[BYprodriver]

[QUOTE=tonichristi;432972]Anyone who's ever played with magnets knows this is complete BS. A magnet will only magnetize a ferrous metal for a limited amount of time.
You can use the damn magnet and just wait a while before you start the engine.
Nothing is going to be permanently magnetized, drama queen. I missed; did you decide to quit posting on rennlist when you saw that no one cared if you stayed or went? What kind of narcissistic person posts something like that in the first place? That was a funny thread! Drama![/QUOTE]

This is your current status Newbie! Cease immediately!

[Steve Tinker]

^^^^ +1 ^^^^
Well said BY.

There's always one isn't there - no wonder people like Raby & JFPinPA turn their backs in disgust on crap like this........

[Hogosha]

If you can get the screw into the "almost" position with a magnet from the outside, maybe you could grab it with a peice of flexible plastic rod with a lump of sticky wax on the end. Something the consistency of "Magicians Wax". If you can put enough pressure onto the screw it may grab the threads enough to pull out. If a small pea size peice of wax falls into the engine, it should just melt away and do no damage.

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by tonichristi

Anyone who's ever played with magnets knows this is complete BS. A magnet will only magnetize a ferrous metal for a limited amount of time.
You can use the damn magnet and just wait a while before you start the engine.
Nothing is going to be permanently magnetized, drama queen. I missed; did you decide to quit posting on rennlist when you saw that no one cared if you stayed or went? What kind of narcissistic person posts something like that in the first place? That was a funny thread! Drama!

What an absolute and utter *ssclown.

And since I got a chance to check out Tonichriti's page since posting the above obvious, I'll add this............do you ever have anything to say that actually POSITIVELY CONTRIBUTES to the discussion?

The reason I ask is that I went to your profile and looked up your other posts and read them, let's just say I already know the answer to the above question.........what a troll.

[gonzojive]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Access though the IMS tensioner hole may yield some results, too.

The tensioner linking the IMS to the camshafts for cycls 1-3? So far no luck through this hole because of the chain tensioner really restricts access. I might be able to get a vacuum hose in there.

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

You can tear the engine down "on the half shell" and leave all of bank 1 together, only removing the exhaust cam sprocket bolts, locking the bank 1 cams in place. This allows complete disassembly of bank 2, and access to the IMS region to fetch this fastener, without total engine disassembly.

We do this all the time in development, changing components for back to back tests.

I'll need to do more research on the engine to visualize what you're describing. How I'm interpreting this is
1) drop out the engine
2) lock the bank 1 cams in place (left side of car when looking at it from the back) after removing the sprocket on the exhaust camshaft. (not sure why removing the sprocket is necessary if that bank will stay intact)
3) [additional steps?]
4) end up with the piece pictured in Jamesp's post below detached--half of the block--allowing easy access to the IMS area.

Originally Posted by Jamesp

Don't give up yet, you might be on the one yard line! The fastener is in the "U" shaped channel in the lower right hand corner of this picture. Use a strong magnet from outside the block to drag the fastener up the ramp out of the channel. This would be dragging "into" and "up" for this picture. Once dragged up the ramp it's no longer in the channel and you might be able to see it with your endoscope. Pull it towards the center of the engine. If it drops from there you can grab it again through the aluminum with magnets from inside the oil reservoir area, in fact having magnets taped to the area you want the fastener to go might be a good move. Then drag it up to the large hole under the cylinders and into your hand. When you get this bolt out you need a vanity plate that says "986FISH".

I'm going to attempt the strategy above and report back. New magnets arrived last night. I should be able to demagnetize the IMS bearing at least if I end up accidentally magnetizing it.

Dropping the engine out sounds like a recipe for even greater calamity/expense/fun, so I'm holding off on that until need be.

[Jamesp]

I really did not consider magnetizing the engine parts in my suggestion. Jake is, not surprisingly, right that ferrous metal may remain slightly magnetized after exposure to a DC magnetic field. I once saw an edit in a repair manual that struck using magnets for removing lifters, presumably for this reason. The question to me is if you are working on your own, not a customers engine is this a risk worth taking? The magnetic field in this case is a long way from the IMSB with lots of ferrous metal between it and the bearing so magnetizing that seems remote. It's reasonable to imagine a link or two in the drive chain may pick up a little residual magnetism, but then again, all ferrous metal has a little. Me personally, on my engine, if I could get the screw out with magnets I'd swallow the risk of magnetizing a part in the engine and jump on getting the screw out.

[Jamesp]

And one other item, I for one very much value and appreciate the opinions of those who have actual experience on this engine, even if I might respectfully hold another opinion. The experts don't have to share their experience, they are literally giving their merchandise away for free to help folks out. The carpet munchers out there can think what they want about the motivation, but unless they want to get justifiably flamed, they really ought to keep their ill considered opinions to themselves.

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

If you get that magnet near the engine you'll magnetize the IMSB. Doing this guarantees that any ferrous debris inside the engine will be sucked into the races of the bearing. This causes certain death.

I have seen this before, and we have to stay join the asses of distributors NOT to ship IMSBs with magnetic drain plugs.

Also, if you magnetize the lifters, they'll suck up debris and the engine will sound like a small diesel.

Magnets that are this powerful have mo place around an engine.

There;s a time when avoiding the issue creates other issues. I'd suck it up and take it apart.

Oh crap. On my last oil change I put in a magnetized drain plug.

Never found any metal in my filters yet though. I'll be putting the original plug back in.

Sorry no help to the op, but Thank You Jake!

[Jamesp]

Originally Posted by KRAM36

Oh crap. On my last oil change I put in a magnetized drain plug.

Never found any metal in my filters yet though. I'll be putting the original plug back in.

Sorry no help to the op, but Thank You Jake!

KRAM, relax, that is shipping the plug next to the IMSB. Your fine, keep the magnetic drain plug.

[Spinnaker]

Thanks for the education Jake, I too did not consider the magnetization of the ferrous parts. I have noticed that anything that comes in contact with this super magnet does become magnetized. Luckily I have a video tape eraser that I use to degauss them.

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by Jamesp

KRAM, relax, that is shipping the plug next to the IMSB. Your fine, keep the magnetic drain plug.

Ok I see, misread what he was saying. He was saying don't ship them together as it will magnetize the IMSB.

Thanks!

[Jake Raby]

When doing a "half shell repair" you must remove the bolts holding the bank 1 exhaust sprocket.This allows you to turn the engine to facilitate bank 2 disassembly without spinning the bank 1 cams. If you lock the cams at TDC 1, then the valves all stay closed enough to clear all the pistons.

You can leave all of bank 1 assembled, even leave the intake manifold in place on that bank.Just remove the spark plugs.

Magnetized engine parts are a big deal. I was referring to shipping mag drain plugs with IMSBs, which is a huge deal.

[Topless]

I am liking the idea of a small vacuum pump and 1/4" vinyl tubing to fish out the set screw. It may require some time and a bit of luck but probably less time than a half-shell dis-assembly.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by Topless

I am liking the idea of a small vacuum pump and 1/4" vinyl tubing to fish out the set screw. It may require some time and a bit of luck but probably less time than a half-shell dis-assembly.

certainly worth a try and a hell of a lot simpler than disassembly

[gonzojive]

We have all had moments where we feel we are running up against a brick wall of impossibility. Such moments can be tough and despairing. Many people spend the entirety of their mature lives fighting for justice, searching for scientific breakthroughs, looking after loved ones, only to have their hearts broken by an unyielding universe. “This is the story of life,” as MLK said.

So I was thinking to myself as I fished around in my engine case for the set screw. David set out to build a great temple but died with the temple unfinished. We all have our temples. There may even be a literal Porsche temple out there. Well, my personal Porsche temple, it is unfinished, it is up on jack stands in the backyard, covered by a blue tarp, causing me troubles with my landlord. It will likely be there for many more months, or until I am evicted. This is the story of life. Damage, repair, incidental damage, repair, death. The natural cycle, waves pounding the beach.

And then I pulled the set screw out of the IMS-crankshaft tensioner hole.

It is amazing to me how gratifying it was to pull that screw out. It was as if I had been dreaming of pulling the screw out my whole life, and then there it was in front of me, stuck to my magnetic wand, covered in motor oil. My girlfriend came running through the living room when she heard me shouting triumphantly. Those of us who are lucky enough know what a good feeling that is. My housemates, also proud, prepared a celebratory feast. What an evening, one for the books. The books for my life this year, anyway.

Thank you all for your contributions. Ultimately I unscrewed all three chain tensioners all the way and used a bungee cord to hold the IMS up and towards the passenger’s side of the car. This I believe created enough clearance for the screw to pass beneath the IMS-crankshaft chain as I guided it from the outside with a 1”x1” cylindrical neodymium magnet. Meanwhile, I maneuvered another magnet on a telescoping rod through the tensioner hole, where it was able to make contact with the screw. The sound of the screw scraping the case was the main sensing signal for the final removal. It helped to have a spatial understanding of the interior, thanks to the endoscope and the photos.

That night I fell asleep thinking of King’s sermon and the conclusion: “Oh this morning, if I can leave anything with you, let me urge you to be sure that you have a strong boat of faith. The winds are going to blow. The storms of disappointment are coming. The agonies and the anguishes of life are coming. And be sure that your boat is strong, and also be very sure that you have an anchor. In times like these, you need an anchor. And be very sure that your anchor holds.”

[jdraupp]

Congrats buddy! That's the best feeling ever. Glad there was a happy ending to this story.

[78F350]

!!!

This thread should be 'stickied'.

[kjc2050]

Congrats for sticking with it. I hope the balance of your project goes smoothly!!!