Tiptronic and Lifetime Fill?

[Brucelee]

I don't have a manual handy so,

Does Porsche specify a drain and refill schedule for the tip transaxle? I am asking as I have a 328I sedan that BMW claims is a lifetime fill trans.

Color me skeptical and I am about to service that trans and change the filter, and fluid etc.

Just curious what Porsche's position on this is.

Also, if specified, what fluid does Porsche recommend upon refill?

Thanks

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I don't have a manual handy so,

Does Porsche specify a drain and refill schedule for the tip transaxle? I am asking as I have a 328I sedan that BMW claims is a lifetime fill trans.

Color me skeptical and I am about to service that trans and change the filter, and fluid etc.

Just curious what Porsche's position on this is.

Also, if specified, what fluid does Porsche recommend upon refill?

Thanks

Hi,

There is a change interval for the Tiptronic S tranny. It's 40k mi., Fluid, Filter and Gasket. The only approved ATF is Porsche Part # 999.917.545.00 ESSO LT 71141 or equivalent (whatever that means...??).

ATF expands significantly when heated, so the fill must be done with the Fluid between 85°F and 100°F. If the Temp is too Low, you'll Overfill it and conversely if the Temp is too High, you'll Underfill it.

But, the Fluid Level s/b checked at least annually. Open the Fill Screw and at proper Temp (take care not to be scalded), a little Fluid should drip out, if not, you need to Top it Up.

There's a special Fluid Pump needed for the Fill. Porsche recommends the VW Tool VAG 1924 ($324!) or you can make your own from a Garden Sprayer and some bent Tubing. The Kicker is that the Fill opening is capped internally by a Rubber Deflector Cap with Fill Flaps on either side. You need a nozzle, for lack of a better word, which is bent back at a 45° Angle to slip through this Fill Flap, and one can be fashioned from some Copper Tubing or such. Care must be taken when inserting the nozzle not to dislodge this Deflector Cap. If it is dislodged, you're Draining and Removing the Pan again to recover it and put it back in place.

The Capacity is 9 ltrs. including the Torque Converter or 3.5 ltrs. for a Fluid Change. I am going to change mine this Spring at 24k mi. because of a need to replace the Gasket due to some seepage around the Pan Seam (I have to dump the Fluid to remove the Pan and replace the Gasket, so I'll change the Filter and clean the Pan and the Magnets while I'm in there).

Also, the Differential Oil Supply is separate on the Tiptronic (It is shared with the Manual Transmission Oil on Cars with Manual Transmissions). So this must be checked separately. This uses standard SAE 75W90 Hypoid Gear Oil (Cap. 0.85 US Quarts). The Drive Axle must be removed to do this, so it's a good idea to plan this for when you need to R&R the CV Joint Boots.

FYI, the appropriate Torque Values are:

• 1. Filter Retaining Srews - 4.5 Ft. Lbs.
  2. Transmission Pan Retaining Screws - 8 Ft. Lbs.
  3. Transmission Pan Drain Plug - 29 Ft. Lbs.
  4. Transmission Filler Plug - 59 Ft. Lbs.

The Dealer wants $650 for this work. My estimate, including Filter, Gasket and Fluid will be $225. Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Brucelee]

Thanks as always Jim.

A comment as well as a question.

Comment-do these manufacturers HAVE to make it so hard to do the critical maint. items. As you describe it, most of us would pass on this and pay the dealer.

Question-What is you take on the BMW "lifetime fill" label.

As I indicated, this is bunk to me. I don't know of any lubricant that can actually be lifetime!

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

Thanks as always Jim.

A comment as well as a question.

Comment-do these manufacturers HAVE to make it so hard to do the critical maint. items. As you describe it, most of us would pass on this and pay the dealer.

Question-What is you take on the BMW "lifetime fill" label.

As I indicated, this is bunk to me. I don't know of any lubricant that can actually be lifetime!

Well Bruce,

First you need to define Lifetime, I'm sure BMW's definition and yours may differ (I believe Porsche also states theirs is Lifetime, but there a Maintenance Spec to change it at 40k mi.). That said, the Tranny is a closed system, not subject to the dirt and moisture that say Engine Oil is.

My guess is that it's simply a selling point. Later on down the Road, there'll be some maintenance (such as a bad Pan Gasket, like I'm having) which will require dropping and changing the Fluid. Another thought, the Fluid may be Lifetime, but what is the Filter Change Interval? I bet there is one...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[nautiquelfe]

Hey Jim post a detailed account of the tran fluid change once you've gotten it done. I really want to change mine also but prefer a bit of experienced guidance before tackling the job. I guess my most hesitate part of the job is building the tool for the refill. That seems like an awful lot of fluid but so does 9.25 quarts of motor oil.

[Brucelee]

Well said Jim.

The tech guy for Bimmer mag said this.

"I will believe in a lifetime fluid when BMW warrants its trans for my lifetime!"

[superglide]

Jim,
It's that time for me, now. Bentley says 90k for my '00'S' Tip fluid, I've just hit 50k, but the car's almost 9 years old now; time for new fluid & filter.

My question is; if the total capacity is 9L, and the change is 3.5L; how do you go about getting ALL the fluid out? Doesn't seem too practical to go through all that work for a bit over one third of the fluid.

Not do it myself and go to a (Porsche) shop w/ a fluid exchange machine? If so; use a trans flush between old and new fluid? And is there anything to beware of, other than using the correct fluid, if the above direction is taken?

I've enjoyed your posts, for their technical awareness, particularly the exchange re: dyno results....
Best Wishes,
Andy

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

There is a change interval for the Tiptronic S tranny. It's 40k mi., Fluid, Filter and Gasket. The only approved ATF is Porsche Part # 999.917.545.00 ESSO LT 71141 or equivalent (whatever that means...??).

ATF expands significantly when heated, so the fill must be done with the Fluid between 85°F and 100°F. If the Temp is too Low, you'll Overfill it and conversely if the Temp is too High, you'll Underfill it.

But, the Fluid Level s/b checked at least annually. Open the Fill Screw and at proper Temp (take care not to be scalded), a little Fluid should drip out, if not, you need to Top it Up.

There's a special Fluid Pump needed for the Fill. Porsche recommends the VW Tool VAG 1924 ($324!) or you can make your own from a Garden Sprayer and some bent Tubing. The Kicker is that the Fill opening is capped internally by a Rubber Deflector Cap with Fill Flaps on either side. You need a nozzle, for lack of a better word, which is bent back at a 45° Angle to slip through this Fill Flap, and one can be fashioned from some Copper Tubing or such. Care must be taken when inserting the nozzle not to dislodge this Deflector Cap. If it is dislodged, you're Draining and Removing the Pan again to recover it and put it back in place.

The Capacity is 9 ltrs. including the Torque Converter or 3.5 ltrs. for a Fluid Change. I am going to change mine this Spring at 24k mi. because of a need to replace the Gasket due to some seepage around the Pan Seam (I have to dump the Fluid to remove the Pan and replace the Gasket, so I'll change the Filter and clean the Pan and the Magnets while I'm in there).

Also, the Differential Oil Supply is separate on the Tiptronic (It is shared with the Manual Transmission Oil on Cars with Manual Transmissions). So this must be checked separately. This uses standard SAE 75W90 Hypoid Gear Oil (Cap. 0.85 US Quarts). The Drive Axle must be removed to do this, so it's a good idea to plan this for when you need to R&R the CV Joint Boots.

FYI, the appropriate Torque Values are:

• 1. Filter Retaining Srews - 4.5 Ft. Lbs.
  2. Transmission Pan Retaining Screws - 8 Ft. Lbs.
  3. Transmission Pan Drain Plug - 29 Ft. Lbs.
  4. Transmission Filler Plug - 59 Ft. Lbs.

The Dealer wants $650 for this work. My estimate, including Filter, Gasket and Fluid will be $225. Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[greesedc]

Just recently went through this "lifetime" discussion on my Audi A6 2.7t. Same drill with the "special tools", Audi only fluid, etc. I purchased the whole kit from a company in MN and they sent the filter, gasket, detailed instructions as to the proper filling level (important) and filling temp. Not being able to hook the car up to a proper computer to tell the temp of the fluid, I used the old electronic meat thermometer and bent the probe to go up and in the filler standpipe...(yes, this Audi fills from the "bottom" of the pan).

Two things. 1. The wife is still pissed about me using the meat thermometer.
2. The fluid that was in the kit was PENTOSIN ATF1 (made in Germany) and I priced it locally at about $15 per qt. I would bet a phenning that it is the same stuff that Porsche and Audi uses, probably even BMW, as was the gasket and filter. However, you should know your parts source before just buying off the internet.

Of course, the local Audi dealer said the trans was lifetime filled, but what else could he say. He said most failures that they see are in trans that were changed.
I'll also bet he ment "flushed", which can loosen some crud in the valve bodies and could plug something up that could result in a problem. Just draining and refilling must have been great for mine as it shifts perfectly smooth. The fluid that I changed was almost black at 70K and the filter was dirty too. The magnets were just covered with some lite sludge, as was the bottom of the pan.

'01 Boxster Tiptronic, 33K

[superglide]

GD,
So, if you drained as per The Book; how do you feel about leaving 5.5 liters (out of a possible 9 litres) of that nasty old fluid, still in the trans......? Or did more than 3.5 liters come out, when you dropped the pan?

At least your car now has it's own, personal meat thermometer. Looks like mine will too.
Adventures in Motoring,
Andy

Originally Posted by greesedc

Just recently went through this "lifetime" discussion on my Audi A6 2.7t. Same drill with the "special tools", Audi only fluid, etc. I purchased the whole kit from a company in MN and they sent the filter, gasket, detailed instructions as to the proper filling level (important) and filling temp. Not being able to hook the car up to a proper computer to tell the temp of the fluid, I used the old electronic meat thermometer and bent the probe to go up and in the filler standpipe...(yes, this Audi fills from the "bottom" of the pan).

Two things. 1. The wife is still pissed about me using the meat thermometer.
2. The fluid that was in the kit was PENTOSIN ATF1 (made in Germany) and I priced it locally at about $15 per qt. I would bet a phenning that it is the same stuff that Porsche and Audi uses, probably even BMW, as was the gasket and filter. However, you should know your parts source before just buying off the internet.

Of course, the local Audi dealer said the trans was lifetime filled, but what else could he say. He said most failures that they see are in trans that were changed.
I'll also bet he ment "flushed", which can loosen some crud in the valve bodies and could plug something up that could result in a problem. Just draining and refilling must have been great for mine as it shifts perfectly smooth. The fluid that I changed was almost black at 70K and the filter was dirty too. The magnets were just covered with some lite sludge, as was the bottom of the pan.

'01 Boxster Tiptronic, 33K

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by greesedc

Just recently went through this "lifetime" discussion on my Audi A6 2.7t. Same drill with the "special tools", Audi only fluid, etc. I purchased the whole kit from a company in MN and they sent the filter, gasket, detailed instructions as to the proper filling level (important) and filling temp. Not being able to hook the car up to a proper computer to tell the temp of the fluid, I used the old electronic meat thermometer and bent the probe to go up and in the filler standpipe...(yes, this Audi fills from the "bottom" of the pan).

Two things. 1. The wife is still pissed about me using the meat thermometer.
2. The fluid that was in the kit was PENTOSIN ATF1 (made in Germany) and I priced it locally at about $15 per qt. I would bet a phenning that it is the same stuff that Porsche and Audi uses, probably even BMW, as was the gasket and filter. However, you should know your parts source before just buying off the internet.

Of course, the local Audi dealer said the trans was lifetime filled, but what else could he say. He said most failures that they see are in trans that were changed.
I'll also bet he ment "flushed", which can loosen some crud in the valve bodies and could plug something up that could result in a problem. Just draining and refilling must have been great for mine as it shifts perfectly smooth. The fluid that I changed was almost black at 70K and the filter was dirty too. The magnets were just covered with some lite sludge, as was the bottom of the pan.

'01 Boxster Tiptronic, 33K

I bought my son an 01 Audi 2.7T with 44K miles on it. The tip went bad at 45K miles.

Lifetime fill anyone?????

[superglide]

BL,
That's the vibe I'm getting from my car, now. No real symptoms of any kind; just a feeling.

Was there an autopsy on your Audi Tip, to determine the cause of the failure? I could use all the background info I can get.
Andy

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I bought my son an 01 Audi 2.7T with 44K miles on it. The tip went bad at 45K miles.

Lifetime fill anyone?????

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by superglide

BL,
That's the vibe I'm getting from my car, now. No real symptoms of any kind; just a feeling.

Was there an autopsy on your Audi Tip, to determine the cause of the failure? I could use all the background info I can get.
Andy

The only data I have is that the mechanic for Audi said that the failure was "not unusual."

Go figure!

I am sure if you get on an Audi forum, you will have some valuable information to sift through.

Good luck.

[cnavarro]

I do all my automatic transmissions every 20k, but then again, I can pickup the slighest change in how the valve body's working very soon after I click over 20k. My other reasoning is that I've seen severe duty service recommendations from other manufacturers that warranty their powertrains to 100,000 mi and they recommend 20k intervals. Much cheaper than R&R on a tip. My parents hit road debris with their A4 right after buying it and destroyed their transmission - insurance covered the $13k in repairs (most of which was a rediculous charge for the transmission).