The Snorkle - why?
 

Hi

I know the 'to' or 'not to' desnorkle the car has been done to death, but I have a question which in reading many posts here and on other sites I haven't really seen an answer for.

What is the engineering or design principle Porsche had when designing and manufacturing the snorkel.

I have read lots of desnorkle discussion on slightly more power (marginal) better induction noise (good), to not to desnorkle because of slight mid range torque/power loss and it came from Porsche like that so why change.

I had a look at my car (MY2004 S) last night and gave the snorkel a wiggle and a good pull - wouldn't budge! They have obviously inserted it so that it can be kept in there for good or you break something (not good as I only want to do things that can be changed back).

I've had a 993 before and its air box was a box with a hole in it in the engine bay so obviously Porsche has previously thought a simple hole was okay at the start of the induction system.

I looking at the snorkle, it occurred to me it looked a lot like an airflow restrictor you have on racing cars to restrict power to a given level which made me wonder if it is:

- just an air restrictor - the external evidence of Porsche restricting the engine system (intake and exhaust) to keep power within a given level
- is it designed to pull in air from closer to the grill
- purely to manage induction noise

There must have been a good reasons for them to have done what they did, they did put it there because they had a good reason....?

Anyone that sells cars in Europe is required to meet the EU sound generation limits (based upon the ultra conservative Swiss model), which is why the intake has sound baffle,s and cars with factory PSE have valves that silence the exhaust under certain conditions.

As far as more power, pulling it on a dyno showed exactly no improvement, so there is not real reason to remove it, other than to make noise.

Which, btw, is a fine reason...

If you say so............................

Is it not generally accepted that this mod is a "personal preference", some like the sound and some don't?

Are you suggesting that there is good reason NOT to remove it?

I'm saying that the effort is a waste of time. But it's your time, so waste it however you please...................

I'm very glad that my new to me 2000 S came desnorkeled.The response to throttle positions during the different RPM ranges is vocalized.

This is part 1 of 3 of the brilliant intake/power engineering of the engine.



(FIRST) movement- Variable induction sounds

(SECOND) movement-The mechanical processing of the induction with the valve train

(THIRD) movement-The rise of the exhaust note as it reports

All of this is placed at the driver's left ear on left hand drive cars.Tremendous!

I don't claim to know the snorkels purpose, however in the past it has been mentioned that it was there to help keep water and other debris out of the intake, in addition to helping reduce engine noise.

:( Unfortunately you are incorrect. According to JFP below, you have completely waisted your time.

He didn't waste his time, the previous owner did. :chicken:

And if your car came desnorkled, you wouldn't have any basis of comparison. Maybe lightspeed would have liked the sound better with the snorkel on?

:dance:

I sense some bitterness. Crazy. Maybe some people like the sound better with it removed, to each his own. :cool:

Kind of reminds me of when kids put baseball cards in the spokes of their bikes to make noise..............

http://www.hometownflashback.com/sit...s-4_3_r560.jpg

Sound is VERY important... for sport & super cars anyway. Desnokle, add a aftermarket exhaust.... at least (min) drill some huge holes somewhere/anywhere to make it better than what a Porsche Boxster sounds original

(like an electric vehicle?!)

No, consistently lower lap times, reproducible and statistically significant improvements in horsepower and/or torque in a usable RPM range, or improvements in the engine's ability to survive are very important; sound is pure fluff.........

It may be fluff, and I totally agree with what you're saying about it being a useless mod, but it puts a smile on my face. That's gotta be worth something.

And yes, I used to put baseball cards in my spokes, so I guess the die was already cast long ago. :p

Looks like he's trying to give his bike more Agusto.

Please remove stick out of your arse. YOu don't like it cause you are hardcore track dude, great, we bow to your prowess, you are the most awesome boxster owner, we aren't worthy to be in your awesome trackdude presence. There you happy? Dang, some people are tight@$$.:chicken:

I thought that somewhere somebody had posted Dyno results showing 5hp on the top end for de-snorked cars.

Don't screw up PF Flyers jag with dyno facts.

I love the sound of low rpm / WOT acceleration with the snorkel pulled. Sounds like serious business.

According to PF Flyer you are an idiot and no where near as awesome as he is. LMAOROF

In his defense, I have been know to be an idiot at times. My mother and mechanic can both provide specific references. ;)

"I'm saying that the effort is a waste of time. But it's your time, so waste it however you please................... "

"Kind of reminds me of when kids put baseball cards in the spokes of their bikes to make noise.............."

"No, consistently lower lap times, reproducible and statistically significant improvements in horsepower and/or torque in a usable RPM range, or improvements in the engine's ability to survive are very important; sound is pure fluff........."

-PF Flyer of PA

These are the posts I was referencing. PF was giving his arrogant reply to the idea of people liking the way the Boxster sounded when de-snorkeled. I wasn't calling you an idiot by any means.:cheers: I'm giving PF Flyer the Wayne's World treatment "We're not worthy!"

And perhaps someone as new to the forum as yourself shouldn't be quite so rude and disrespectful to one of the most knowledgeable and helpful people on this forum, especially considering that in all of your 157 posts to date you have contributed absolutely nothing of value.

Yeah arrogant crap don't fly with me, just the way it is, deal with it. 1 post or 1 million posts doesn't allow for anyone to pull that "nose in the air" stuff. Rudeness will get matched with rudeness in return.

Hey! Let's stop all this. JFP knows a lot about engines besides how they sound and I'm sure he's not implying that anyone's an idiot. We all have our preferences as far as our cars go.

I wish I had someone with his demonstrated level of knowledge to help with my car habit, especially now that I've taken the plunge on a custom turbo beast.

To the OP:

I've desnorked both of the Boxsters I've owned, a 2000 and a 2008, and both came out with very little effort and produced a beautiful throttle melody. Maybe yours is stuck, or there is some fastener holding it in. If you can get it loose, see how you like it. No one has seen any real change in engine performance either way. You can always put it back in.

Enough said, and I think I speak for everyone on this! Let's drop this guys.

We all love Porsches :cheers:

I'm with slate...he had it coming. Why would someone even bother responding just to instigate and denigrate someone over something as trivial as desnorkeling their car. Maybe he just had a bad day or something.

Yep.
http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/9671-finally-dyno-charts-de-snorked-986s-6.html

Hi

Thank you for the info everyone. I've kept my head down as I didn't intend to cause an 'issue', I just didn't see the point of the thing.

May well try again to get it out. The car is going into the shop tomorrow for a 997 shift kit and SpeedTech exhaust installation. Very excited to feel and hear the change. I'm in the enjoy the noise camp, I appreciate that the car won't be faster but I'll get the aural sesations I'm after.

I dropped back from a 996 Turbo because I realised that to get the sensation I wanted from driving the car I'd lose my licence, the Boxster gives me the outcome at legal speeds. I'd just like a bit more drama getting to a 100 kmh.

I'll introduce the car by way of a photo after tomorrows work is completed.

Cheers

Mine was incredibly difficult to remove, but it didn't need any tools to do so, just an insane amount of wiggling and force. Sadly the intake is on the other side of the car to the driver in Australia, but it still sounds pretty decent to me!

Perhaps the most interesting, and as well as humorus point is that it was one run, under questionable conditions (a mobile dyno setup), and even many of the posters in this long thread questioned the validity of the data. One poster summed the data perfectly:

"Dyno results can be funny and not always verifiable or repeatable. The Lister must admit this if he's the kind of engineer, he seems to be.

So many variables must be exactly the same on each run for any results to be meaningful, especially since you're claiming a very small % gain of overall power (1.9%). Some, but not all include: Ambient Temp, Barometric pressure, Fuel flow, Octane, Alternator Output, each line of code in the DME operating w/o fault on each run, Engine Temp, Tranny Temp, Bearing Temp, and on and on.

For example, an Alternator (whose power draw is variable and not constant) alone can draw as much as 4-30 crank HP because of the inefficiencies in a Belt & Pulley system, so if it was filling demand on the 1st run, but not the 2nd, this alone could account for the variance seen.

The best method is to do multiple runs exactly duplicating the conditions of all previous runs and then averaging the results. Then, you reverse it, put the snorkel back on and see if you consistently achieve the previous Baseline numbers over an average of multiple runs. If these results aren't duplicated to within a pretty narrow degree, there is some variable not being accounted for.

Just because you get a graph from a single run which supports your theory, isn't in, and of, itself proof of anything..."

Rule number one on dyno data: If it isn't reproducible, it isn't..............

Slate o1 wasn't singling out JFP, posting rude comments is his only "contribution" to the forum. I think he is past due for a warning from a moderator.

Give it a rest, "I think he is past due for a warning from a moderator". Really, are you going to call your mommy next, come on grow up!

Everyone please keep it civil, thanks.