Another IMS bearing thread

[southernstar]

Tony, I remember the cars. The Boxster is, of course, much more refined, has much better handling, creates a much better exhaust note, has a much better top, is better assembled and does not have the inevitable rattles of fiberglass on a steel chassis. Cool car though.

Brad

[Walter White]

I am liking this setup.




I may have shown too many holes, but it illustrates various routes that may be possible to collect drain-off.

[Jake Raby]

It would be nice if you could miracle those passageways into place.

I don't concur with this logic about removing oil from the area any more than delivering oil to the area and keeping a ball bearing in place.

How do you foresee testing this theory? Do you realize how long it will take to gather trend data that supports if it works or if it doesn't?

Ever taken apart an M96?

[Walter White]

I was just figuring out the minimum and maximum pressure the IM shaft would see if it were sealed with a freeze plug. Using P1/T1 = P2/T2, volume is not a variable. So that would mean that if the bearing is sealed with its own seals, it would see the same changes in pressure over temperature? Venting the shaft would not help? The grease in the sealed bearing will still see the same pressure changes I think.

[Nine8Six]

That is one of many other calculators that we often use for some applications we engineer.

http://www.skf.com/group/knowledge-centre/engineering-tools/skfbearingcalculator.html

Of course Porsche's R&D have designed better formulas, but it could give you a head start selecting a, perhaps?, better bearing than what Porsche initially came us with.

Bearing life, frictional moment, frequencies, viscosity, dynamic bearing load, etc etc...

[Walter White]

Originally Posted by Walter White

I was just figuring out the minimum and maximum pressure the IM shaft would see if it were sealed with a freeze plug. Using P1/T1 = P2/T2, volume is not a variable. So that would mean that if the bearing is sealed with its own seals, it would see the same changes in pressure over temperature? Venting the shaft would not help? The grease in the sealed bearing will still see the same pressure changes I think.

I have been spin-testing my bearing with the supplemental seal and it spits out a little grease each time I start spinning it after a cool down period. I have a feeling my prediction may be correct. It may be that using grease will require some type of ventilation.

[tonysilver986]

Help!!!!!
I replied to this thread but it hasn't shown. It is in my post history but other than that it has disappeared

[mikefocke]

Another day, another proposed approach.

Based on theory. Untested in quantity.

[Jamesp]

True enough there isn't a track record for this as I made it up myself, but based on "theory" is debatable. Its based on engineering experience with unintentional pressure vessels and the perfect gas law.

[thom4782]

Two thoughts...

Vibration may not be the best word. I used it to make the point that IMSB is not purely rotational. There are side forces that contribute to loading. The article you referenced hit the nail on the head - spalling is is the path to failure. The rate of spalling is inversely proportional to loading, which explains the higher OEM single row failure rates. That is, higher single row point loadings lead to increased spalling compared to dual row bearings

In some sense, the IMS Solution is the biggest roller bearing possible. It provides the largest surface area to distribute bearing load.

[Walter White]

Single row IMSB flange

[Jamesp]

So is the thought to run a pump inside the IMS shaft using the rotation motion of the shaft and the stationary bearing retaining stud? The oil then exits through an open bearing into the crankcase? I'm not sure what type of pump would lift the oil, but this concept is intriguing. Maybe some type of modified stator vane pump? First pumps air to create a vacuum and lift the oil, and then can handle oil as well? That would eliminate any new moving parts, make the stator and vanes part of a new stud and IMS tube closeout? Neat idea. Lots of technical challenges come to mind. Keep going and have fun!

[Walter White]

I'm looking at pumping the oil. It would be nice if it could be done. As I see it, the oil only has to be lifted about an inch. There are several types of pumps that may be viable. But yes I have considered the stator type too. Plan B is to be able to pump grease into the bearing. The biggest question now is can a tube fit down into the sump from the flange. Always looking for help. That's why I post the pics.

[Walter White]

Is there any chance of drilling a 1/16" hole in the IM shaft from the sump?

[Jamesp]

Not sure what you mean. I would not drill the IMS tube between the end fittings from a structural consideration standpoint. That's not to say it would certainly lead to a failure over time, but it's not a slam dunk it won't start a crack and fail the tube over time.

[Walter White]

Took a little time today to cut an IMSB flange for the supplemental seal and glue a piece of sheet rubber to the existing seal on a Nachi 6204.



I have the setup soaking in oil as I type, except I went straight to the torsional load test with the vice grips.

[Walter White]

How the heck did you fit a 2 row bearing into the single row shaft? I am amazed!

Edit: Okay, I see

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Walter White

How the heck did you fit a 2 row bearing into the single row shaft? I am amazed!

Edit: Okay, I see

It's what happens when you allow a problem and it's solutions to consume your life completely, and when you have the proper resources to carry out development with an open checkbook.

[BYprodriver]

Well done Jake & team! Thank you for all your dedication to our hobby!

[Jake Raby]

My pleasure... Literally!