986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

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-   Performance and Technical Chat (http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/)
-   -   Poll: RMS and Engine problem questionaire (http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/4886-poll-rms-engine-problem-questionaire.html)

Marburk 09-24-2012 01:02 PM

Purchased 2003 Boxster 2.7L Tiptronic with 6400 miles as Porsche CPO from Newport Porsche in 2007. I am the second owner and the current mleage is 19600 miles. No RMS leak or IMS failure to date - The underside of the engine/trans area is bone dry and shows no signs of previous leaks/oil seepage. So far, so good! Routine oil changes at 5000 mile intervals or every 12 monthe regardless of mileage. Spirited driving style after bringing engine up to operating temps as a precaution.

I am, however, seriously considering an IMS retrofit from LN engineering preemptively as others have done. I will be getting a quote from Hergesheimer Motorsports in Lake Forest, CA next week.

Manfred 10-12-2012 11:09 AM

I have a 2000 S with 38K mi. that has never leaked. It uses none of the 10w40 specified in the owners manual between changes. It's getting a prophylactic LN Engineering IMS Kit next week with water pump, cool thermostat and belt, and Air/Oil separator. Again it would be interesting to know how many seal failures are with 0w and 5w oil usage and how many bearing failures occurred with those oils and/or change intervals over 5000 mi. Yes, it's a weak bearing, but if you're going to gamble by continuing with it, use more viscosity in conjunction with higher (older) ZDDP content. All of the "exotic" oils contain higher levels.
The ZDDP won't trash your cats if you are burning very little oil.

Heiko 10-12-2012 11:28 AM

2000 BoxS with 44,000miles - RMS is dry and IMS is quiet (and filter is clean of debris)... so far so good... Oil changes are cheap motor protection!

986piper 01-28-2013 11:03 AM

Darn
 
D-chunked at 100,000 miles, looking for an Audi V8 to drop in, not gonna waste my time with another one of these "fine" M96 motors. BTW, does anybody want to buy a long block core?

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1359403311.jpg

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1359403366.jpg

RandallNeighbour 01-28-2013 11:10 AM

What about putting in a renegade hybrid LS1 in your box, 986piper? Lots cheaper and the maintenance is a lot cheaper too. Gobs of power to boot.

Rcomito 02-19-2013 09:41 AM

I recently purchased a Guards Red 2003 Boxster S 6 speed from CAR MAX. The vehicle was immaculate with only 25,000 miles. It had been a leased car. If I had done my research prior to purchasing the car I would have been aware of the IMS issues than have plagued many of these cars. With this issue in mind I took the car to a respected local Porsche mechanic for evaluation. The car had no leaks, tires were original with no cracks on the exterior or interiors. I elected to have the IMS bearing replaced with an LN Engineering kit just to be on the safe side. The mechanic replaced the oil and filter before beginning work on the engine. No signs of metal was found. I do not regret this work done. I feel that it was money well spent and that I will enjoy the car for years to come. By the way, I'm 73 and a rather conservative driver.

Rcomito 02-19-2013 09:43 AM

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1361299301.jpg

mikefocke 02-19-2013 03:01 PM

I know they were inspected but the general limit is about 6 years for tires. If the car is 9 years old, the tires could be older. Look on the sidewalls determine the month and year of manufacture and then decide if you want to trust you safety to them.

I suspect, if the tires have decent tread, at least the rears aren't original. Typical Boxsters don't go 25k on the rear tires unless they are aligned to max tire wear as opposed to max traction.

MikenOH 02-20-2013 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rcomito (Post 328211)
I recently purchased a Guards Red 2003 Boxster S 6 speed from CAR MAX. The vehicle was immaculate with only 25,000 miles. It had been a leased car. If I had done my research prior to purchasing the car I would have been aware of the IMS issues than have plagued many of these cars. With this issue in mind I took the car to a respected local Porsche mechanic for evaluation. The car had no leaks, tires were original with no cracks on the exterior or interiors. I elected to have the IMS bearing replaced with an LN Engineering kit just to be on the safe side. The mechanic replaced the oil and filter before beginning work on the engine. No signs of metal was found. I do not regret this work done. I feel that it was money well spent and that I will enjoy the car for years to come. By the way, I'm 73 and a rather conservative driver.

Nice looking car; for a 10 year old car with 25K, obviously the car hasn't been driven much.
I would recommend driving the car as much as you can, don't be afraid the rev the motor after it's warmed up and change the oil annually if you don't hit 6-8K miles of use/year

RandallNeighbour 02-20-2013 07:04 AM

Rcomito, I second that compliment and the advice. Excellent choice! I wish I had purchased red.

I wind up my motor to redline every time I drive it. The motor is designed for it and it really helps with lubrication from all I've read.

Rcomito 02-24-2013 06:52 PM

Re evaluating tiresp
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mikefocke (Post 328251)
I know they were inspected but the general limit is about 6 years for tires. If the car is 9 years old, the tires could be older. Look on the sidewalls determine the month and year of manufacture and then decide if you want to trust you safety to them.

I suspect, if the tires have decent tread, at least the rears aren't original. Typical Boxsters don't go 25k on the rear tires unless they are aligned to max tire wear as opposed to max traction.

I suspected that the tires might not be original and had a local tire dealer confirm the 5009 code I found on the side walls. Indeed, the code was December2009. I was relived that I am riding on tires that are just over four years old. I was prepared to have new Michelins installed. By the way, apparently the previous owner drove the car with car as both front and rear tire show about the same amount of remaining tread. Additionally, all four tires have the 5009 code.

Speedster986 03-02-2013 04:29 PM

When you see a Black 2003 2.7L with chrome rims cursing the Inland Empire & O.C. area... give me honk!

I'll know it's you, because there isn't many Guards Red 2003 on the road!

Congrats!

Trey T 09-03-2013 09:31 AM

*deleted, wrong one

John Bergen 04-25-2014 10:46 AM

Recently replaced the IMSB with LN dual row ceramic bearing. Mech noticed small metal particles in oil filter but we caught it before bearing failure. Car is 2000S with just under 74K. Did clutch at same time. It was on the way out! Pricey but worth the peace of mind!

boxster newbie 01-28-2015 06:32 AM

porsche grenade
 
1997, base boxster. grenades engine at, 144,000 kilometers. Porsche said too bad, Porsche in Calgary alta, installed a used wrecker , sup, low mileage engine, for many thousand,s. so cost of engine and instal, I purchased car for 10500$ and now have 190,000 kilometers on it. with some maint . brakes , aos , starter etc. sad that if the engine blows on my watch, I will scrap the car. 10,000$ boxsters are easy to come by. would I buy another , yes. two trunks, great driving experience, and performance for a light car. all that trumps, the Miata , solstice, Honda , etc.:cheers::cheers:

boxster newbie 01-29-2015 06:04 AM

stats for failure
 
I will also mention , ( Eisen IMS class action lawsuit, The single row ims used 2000-2005 have an 8% failure rate versus less than 1% with the dual row.:cheers::cheers:

boxstertoy 01-24-2016 04:26 AM

good morninall. have a newly purchased 2002 base with tiptronic. 62k miles. not sure if the IMS is really even an issue for me, but would like some input. last oil change was clean, no metal. car runs very well, smooth with the exception of some minor wheel shimmy at about 75 mph. may be road. struts tight, recent wheel balance. thanks

boxstertoy

imon_2nd 04-28-2016 03:47 PM

Yes, RMS leak (seep, no floor stain) in my 2004 S. Had seal replaced, today along with clutch and oil filler tube.

I don't know how to vote in the poll.

Nmbrsix 06-20-2017 09:48 AM

My '02 986S had an RMS leak when I purchased it with 68k on the odo. It also needed a water pump and a few other things. I decided to have all the big stuff tackled at once save for the timing chain paddles--RMS, LN IMS upgrade, clutch/DMF, AOS, water pump, etc.

Now I change the oil, put gas in it, and drive it hard whenever possible without (too much) anxiety.

Todd Mac 05-26-2018 09:29 AM

RMS leak at 48K miles. Luckily I noticed it 2 weeks after I purchased it from a Porsche dealer and they agreed to repair it at no cost to me. I did the IMS and clutch since the engine was out and the labor was minimal for the additional work.

Tmar04 12-29-2018 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marburk (Post 307178)
Purchased 2003 Boxster 2.7L Tiptronic with 6400 miles as Porsche CPO from Newport Porsche in 2007. I am the second owner and the current mleage is 19600 miles. No RMS leak or IMS failure to date - The underside of the engine/trans area is bone dry and shows no signs of previous leaks/oil seepage. So far, so good! Routine oil changes at 5000 mile intervals or every 12 monthe regardless of mileage. Spirited driving style after bringing engine up to operating temps as a precaution.

I am, however, seriously considering an IMS retrofit from LN engineering preemptively as others have done. I will be getting a quote from Hergesheimer Motorsports in Lake Forest, CA next week.

Why do these ‘Porsche mechanics ‘ think their time is worth 125-150 per hour?? After all, it is all wrenching!! Any good mechanic , with proper tools and instructions should be able to replace IMS bearing, clutch, water pump, etc

maytag 12-29-2018 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmar04 (Post 586342)
Why do these ‘Porsche mechanics ‘ think their time is worth 125-150 per hour?? After all, it is all wrenching!! Any good mechanic , with proper tools and instructions should be able to replace IMS bearing, clutch, water pump, etc

They don't.
That mechanic isn't making much more than any other ASE certified mechanic. But remember, when you pay that rate, you're paying also for the porsche- specific training these guys were required to attend. You're paying for the porsche tools and diagnostic equipment. And perhaps the largest chunk: you're paying for the building you're standing in when you do it. That building costs substantially more than a Chevy building. (I build them, so I can expound on that, if you don't believe me). Ask yourself if you'd take your car to a mechanic who didn't have all of those things I just mentioned? If you're answer is yes, then you are quite free to do so! Hahaha. ;-)
Seriously: if you feel that an RMS requires no specific training, or tools, or a fancy building, then take it to tunex....
Me? I do all my own wrenching. But if I ever came across something so daunting that I felt I needed to take it to someone, it'd most certainly be the porsche certified guys. Not some guy just like me.


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Geof3 12-29-2018 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmar04 (Post 586342)
Why do these ‘Porsche mechanics ‘ think their time is worth 125-150 per hour?? After all, it is all wrenching!! Any good mechanic , with proper tools and instructions should be able to replace IMS bearing, clutch, water pump, etc

Our Jeep dealer charges 110.00 an hour, so the P-Car dealer labor costs aren’t too far off. Join PCA, you get a discount at dealerships, maybe even mom/pop shops if you ask. Evens the field a little.

And I agree 100% with Maytag on this one...

JFP in PA 12-29-2018 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmar04 (Post 586342)
Why do these ‘Porsche mechanics ‘ think their time is worth 125-150 per hour?? After all, it is all wrenching!! Any good mechanic , with proper tools and instructions should be able to replace IMS bearing, clutch, water pump, etc

Local Nissan and Honda dealers are getting $125-140 per hour to work on your Sentra or Civic; so why wouldn’t a decent Porsche mechanic (dealer or independent) charge $125-150 per? Considering the required knowledge and specialized tooling these cars require, that rate is quite reasonable.

If you don’t want to pay the going rate, try setting yourself up with everything necessary and do it yourself; or trade the car in for a Toyota.......

Frank M 12-29-2018 10:07 AM

Going to a specialist
 
There is always a learning curve on different tasks. I prefer to go to a specialist if I were going to have a delicate surgery, true maybe the Veterinarian could do it.

The specialization of a Porsche etc. shop have seen a lot and done a lot on the specific brand.

B6T 12-30-2018 11:25 AM

If you don't want to pay a shop to work on your Porsche, you could always get an Engineering degree and be able to figure out how to do it yourself?

(Just kidding... it won't help...)

maytag 12-30-2018 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFP in PA (Post 586359)
If you don’t want to pay the going rate, try setting yourself up with everything necessary and do it yourself;...... .

Hahaha.... BINGO! Right on, JFP.

I love telling people this in my business.

"Oh, you think an electrician should cost only $45/hr? Ok.... i'll pay YOU $45/hr to do it. But first: here's where you can sign up for the 4 years of trade school. Oh, and here's the tool list you'll need. You'll need a truck to put your tools and materials in. Oh, and remember that you'll need to do your continuing education courses each year to keep your license current. Then there's the cost of health insurance, the 401k match, the vacation time, etc. Oh, and state and federal taxes, liability insurance,..... etc "



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itsnotanova 12-31-2018 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmar04 (Post 586342)
Why do these ‘Porsche mechanics ‘ think their time is worth 125-150 per hour?? After all, it is all wrenching!! Any good mechanic , with proper tools and instructions should be able to replace IMS bearing, clutch, water pump, etc

This picture was sent to me by a guy with that same opinion. It was taken at the "shop" where it was getting the transmission fixed from the previous work done to it by another shop. The previous shop had somehow broken the transmission case. The new shop damaged the engine while replacing the transmission and the owner sent me this picture to see if I wanted to buy the car. You get what you pay for
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1546262415.jpg

cnavarro 12-31-2018 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maytag (Post 586542)
Hahaha.... BINGO! Right on, JFP.

I love telling people this in my business.

"Oh, you think an electrician should cost only $45/hr? Ok.... i'll pay YOU $45/hr to do it. But first: here's where you can sign up for the 4 years of trade school. Oh, and here's the tool list you'll need. You'll need a truck to put your tools and materials in. Oh, and remember that you'll need to do your continuing education courses each year to keep your license current. Then there's the cost of health insurance, the 401k match, the vacation time, etc. Oh, and state and federal taxes, liability insurance,..... etc "



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No different than those saying we overcharge for the parts we manufacture. Shops need to make their margin as do the wholesalers. Most shops make more money on parts than on labor and many shops have told me they operate on less than 10% margin. That's why we've seen so many shops fold up in the last few years.

I have a shop as well and overhead for that side of the business is in the $80-85/hr. That's the bare minimum an hour I have to charge to keep the lights on. Once the new Governor passes additional taxes in IL, health insurance goes up (again), I'm sure that number will rise. That doesn't take into consideration actually making money.

Shops in the Chicagoland area charge upwards of $200 an hour.

maytag 12-31-2018 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnavarro (Post 586575)
No different than those saying we overcharge for the parts we manufacture. Shops need to make their margin as do the wholesalers. Most shops make more money on parts than on labor and many shops have told me they operate on less than 10% margin. That's why we've seen so many shops fold up in the last few years.

I have a shop as well and overhead for that side of the business is in the $80-85/hr. That's the bare minimum an hour I have to charge to keep the lights on. Once the new Governor passes additional taxes in IL, health insurance goes up (again), I'm sure that number will rise. That doesn't take into consideration actually making money.

Shops in the Chicagoland area charge upwards of $200 an hour.

Oh I absolutely agree with you. 100%. You'll note than in another thread I specifically defended YOUR pricing.

But you'll also note another recent thread wherein I commented that when someone pays your premium price, for your premium product, it really should FIT, without having to "ream it out".

It goes both ways, Charles. I tell my people all the time: "we either have to be better, or we have to be cheaper. I gotta have something to sell on." Just because a shop charges higher rates doesn't mean they're better. They need to actually be better. This is why I won't use the Garff shops in SLC: They've had my jeeps, my jaguars, my Audi, my Mercedes', and done a piss-poor job on all of them. They're not getting a chance at another one of my cars.

You've established yourself at the top of the market, price-wise: Your quality should be there too.


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