986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners (http://986forum.com/forums/)
-   Performance and Technical Chat (http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/)
-   -   Poll: RMS and Engine problem questionaire (http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/4886-poll-rms-engine-problem-questionaire.html)

Phill Dougan 08-27-2006 01:42 PM

RMS replaced 987
 
Hi, my 987 has just had the RMS replaced at 14k, used for long runs at high speed 3k round trips, driven with passion but not flogged. also had the oil pressure release valve replaced it rattled at 2200 rpm common on the 987.

MikenOH 08-28-2006 07:38 AM

Phill: a few questions
 
-How much oil were you leaking?
-Any comment out of the dealership on this?
-What do you mean by "long runs at high speed 3k round trips"?
-how'd you break the car in?
-S or base model?
-Manual or Tip trany?
Thanks,
Mike

RandallNeighbour 08-28-2006 07:53 AM

This makes me wonder if Cayman owners are experiencing RMS issues on the 3.4... I'm thinking about saving up and buying a 07 S when they start to come off 3 year leases and I HOPE they've fixed the problem by now... but I'm not holding my breath.

YellowJacket 08-28-2006 09:46 AM

1997
66k
daily commuter
no track time and minimal spirited driving
all maintenance done on time, +/- 1k miles
bought used
NO RMS

By the way, regarding the .5%-1% requirement for surveys, that's a load of poop. You need around 30-40 responses to start getting directional reads (as in, we could start saying "track cars tend to be more prone than street cars" or whatnot). You need around 500 responses to get reads at 95% confidence, and around 1000 responses to get reads at 97% confidence (have you ever noticed how all those consumer polls by Gallup and whatnot usually specify 3% margin of error with 1006 responses or something like that?). Still, these numbers require that the populations be unbiased and representative of the overall population, but we'd never get that here for 2 reasons:
1. People who've had RMS failure are more likely to respond than those who haven't.
2. Just the fact that you're on a forum for Boxster owners means several things about you that bias the group that would respond here.

Cool concept, but perhaps the only people who could do this survey the RIGHT way is Porsche, and the only people who could do it "almost right" is PCA, unless someone has a national list of Boxster owners floating around. :-)

MNBoxster 08-28-2006 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YellowJacket
1997
66k
daily commuter
no track time and minimal spirited driving
all maintenance done on time, +/- 1k miles
bought used
NO RMS

By the way, regarding the .5%-1% requirement for surveys, that's a load of poop. You need around 30-40 responses to start getting directional reads (as in, we could start saying "track cars tend to be more prone than street cars" or whatnot). You need around 500 responses to get reads at 95% confidence, and around 1000 responses to get reads at 97% confidence (have you ever noticed how all those consumer polls by Gallup and whatnot usually specify 3% margin of error with 1006 responses or something like that?). Still, these numbers require that the populations be unbiased and representative of the overall population, but we'd never get that here for 2 reasons:
1. People who've had RMS failure are more likely to respond than those who haven't.
2. Just the fact that you're on a forum for Boxster owners means several things about you that bias the group that would respond here.

Cool concept, but perhaps the only people who could do this survey the RIGHT way is Porsche, and the only people who could do it "almost right" is PCA, unless someone has a national list of Boxster owners floating around. :-)

Hi,

I agree with you so far as statistical analysis goes. But, Porsche is MUM on the subject and PCA hasn't conducted such a survey to my knowledge, leaving only these Ad Hoc surveys to make some sense of it.

Still, whatever the bias, more than 30% of those responding here have experienced the problem.

That's a little higher than I expected because a PCNA Service Rep (on condition of anonymity) confided in me that they are seeing anywhere between 20% and 25% RMS Failure, it fluctuates between the two (he didn't breakdown Model Year, Model, Mileage, Multiple failures. Nor did he distinguish between 98X and 99X). Your caveats may explain the disparity between what he said and what we're seeing here.

If the PCNA Rep is off by as much as half, that's still waay too high for a Brand Name Sports Car in the $50k range. And, the fact that Porsche hasn't resolved the issue in a decade is perhaps even more deplorable. They just keep grinding them out, and the Public (whether ignorant, or just stupid) keeps gobbling them up.

Let's just hope that the Air Bag supplier, TRW, isn't experiencing an anywhere near similar failure rate!...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

jrkauffman28 09-23-2006 10:13 AM

No RMS Problem
 
2000 Boxster w/ 55 K miles. Origanal owner. No problems so far.

BoxsterQc 09-27-2006 06:18 AM

02 Boxster spirited but not abused driving conditions, not a daily commuter and stored from Nov to Mar.
Bought it used , have 49K and had to change the RMS last spring after a long rest in the Garage for the Winter. When I brought it in for service at 45K they saw that the RMS was starting to go ( few oil drops) . Drove it twice and it started leaking. Had to change with the larger seal. So far have drove it all the summer and it's fine !
I'm going to cross fingers since I'm afraid that long period of storing the car will not help the RMS issue.

MNBoxster 09-27-2006 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxsterQc
02 Boxster spirited but not abused driving conditions, not a daily commuter and stored from Nov to Mar.
Bought it used , have 49K and had to change the RMS last spring after a long rest in the Garage for the Winter. When I brought it in for service at 45K they saw that the RMS was starting to go ( few oil drops) . Drove it twice and it started leaking. Had to change with the larger seal. So far have drove it all the summer and it's fine !
I'm going to cross fingers since I'm afraid that long period of storing the car will not help the RMS issue.

Hi,

No need to cross fingers at all due to winter storage. See my post in the General Discussions on RMS & Winter Storage.

BTW, I was just in your wonderful city last week as my wife is going to be doing the '07 PGA President's Cup Tournament in Montreal next September at the Royal Montreal Golf Club. We married and honeymooned in Montreal back in '99, so I'll be accompanying her next year and we'll have a 2nd honeymoon there once the tourney's over. Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Boxter 09-27-2006 10:32 AM

Unfortunately for all concerned parties here I think Yellow Jacket's post is spot on.

You typed my thoughts almost to the word.

...and as unscientific as this may sound I also think there is an element of superstition that may influence the Non-RMS replacement crowd from participating.

That said I have a 98' with 73K, only had it for a month, spirited driving, with a small leak back there, but no RMS diagnosed as of yet...

"knock/touch wood" just to cover all bases.

Silverstreak 10-19-2006 06:04 AM

Year 2000 type S, RMS replaced at 19K miles :mad:

jci-joe 12-20-2006 04:43 AM

99 Boxster
33000 miles
Tiptronic
no rms issues
orginal engine
i am 2nd owner and the original owner only had a small coolant leak that was fixed under warranty and an AC that needed charged

just_me 01-02-2007 08:29 AM

Loren's data and analysis was released TODAY
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by xclusivecar
On the PPBB.com board they had a poster (LorenS?) who had asked everyone to participate in a survey regarding RMS and other problems. This was several months ago and I believe he is still compiling the data. He was doing this in his spare time and this is why it was taking so long. The outcome should be interesting if nothing else. I believe he had well over 250 surveys sent to him and the data compiled would be based off these. He is a stats guy and had some type of software that would paint a picture of problems compared to driving habits, mileage, etc... :cheers:

Available on PPBB

Rondog 01-08-2007 09:33 PM

2005 987s 18,300mi
 
dealer informed me while performing 20M service (yes i was early) that there is a rms leak--- i never saw any sign of it ---all covered by warranty so i imagine they are telling the truth....

should anything else be done while that is being fixed?!?!?!

RD

RandallNeighbour 01-09-2007 08:13 AM

Ask them to inspect the clutch... if you've been real hard on it, now's the time to swap it out as the labor will be free. :rolleyes:

Problem is that they will not let you supply your own parts and they're gonna rip your head off at the ankles for a clutch. :(

fahlmanb 02-06-2007 02:10 PM

Survey response...
 
As many of you have read in another thread, I have an '02 Boxster:

purchased used last May; currently ca. 35K miles; Tiptronic
no RMS problem
engine failed 2 wks ago due to failure of the intermediate shaft/timing chain

Allen K. Littlefield 02-11-2007 07:03 AM

What! Me worry?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fahlmanb
As many of you have read in another thread, I have an '02 Boxster:

purchased used last May; currently ca. 35K miles; Tiptronic
no RMS problem
engine failed 2 wks ago due to failure of the intermediate shaft/timing chain


Ouch! I just purchased an '02 2.7 Tip with now just over 35k past Dec.. Certified vehicle and when I got it to inspection I notice a rms leak. Now wasn't that supposed to be taken care of by the dealer before they could sell it as certified? Fingers crossed in the frozen N.E.

986geezer

Cloudsurfer 02-14-2007 05:43 AM

02 S with 70k here, no RMS issues to date.

With regard to the last post, I dont see how PCNA would allow a car to be certified with a known RMS issue.

Patrick

RandallNeighbour 02-14-2007 06:35 AM

My sentiments exactly! However, if they put the kibash on certifying any boxster with a RMS problem, they'd have precious few cars to certify!

porsche986spyder 02-14-2007 06:51 AM

Okay, this may sound like a stupid question, but what does RMS stand for? Rear Main Seal???

RandallNeighbour 02-14-2007 06:59 AM

RMS - short for "you have a leak where your engine meets your tranny and we're not fixing this factory flaw in our engines ... and we need to warn you right now, you need to bend over and take it like a prison inmate who has to pay $800 or more to get raped."

Yeah, it means Rear Main Seal.

porsche986spyder 02-14-2007 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour
RMS - short for "you have a leak where your engine meets your tranny and we're not fixing this factory flaw in our engines ... and we need to warn you right now, you need to bend over and take it like a prison inmate who has to pay $800 or more to get raped."

Yeah, it means Rear Main Seal.

Then my answer is yep. I had this problem too. Bought mine used with 47,000 miles on it last year. It's an 01, 2.7ltr. This was before I joined this message board and found out about this problem. Worst part was right after I bought the car and actually sat down in the car to drive it off of the parking lot, the guy who sold me the car says, "Oh by the way, it has a small oil leak, nothing major, only about 3-4 drops and its speratic. Not constant." Then he tells me, its common in all Porsche Boxsters. What could I do, I had just signed the paperwork. I was VERY PISSED OFF! I felt like I got screwed. Luck for me, I reported them to the B.B.B. and dealer fixed it for free. :cheers:

porsche986spyder 02-14-2007 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour
where your engine meets your tranny

Yeah, it means Rear Main Seal.

So is it an engine oil leak? Or a transmission fluid leak? Just curious.

YellowJacket 02-14-2007 08:27 AM

So I get a call from the wifey yesterday evening telling me how cool it is that oil drips puddle up nicely on top of the epoxy floor in the garage instead of sinking into it like with other floors. Hmm... score 1 point for the geniuses in the garage floor coatings industry, score -800 points for my wallet. :-(

Called the dealership and made an appointment for Friday for what appears will be an RMS replacement. Throw in $900 for 4 new tires, and even if they find that the clutch/flywheel are in perfect condition, this will be more than I've spent on the car in the entire 2 years I've owned it!

Grr... I've finally been bit by the RMS. 2 months after the warranty expired.

Brucelee 02-14-2007 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porsche986spyder
Then my answer is yep. I had this problem too. Bought mine used with $47,000 miles on it last year. It's an 01, 2.7ltr. This was before I joined this message board and found out about this problem. Worst part was right after I bought the car and actually sat down in the car to drive it off of the parking lot, the guy who sold me the car says, "Oh by the way, it has a small oil leak, nothing major, only about 3-4 drops and its speratic. Not constant." Then he tells me, its common in all Porsche Boxsters. What could I do, I had just signed the paperwork. I was VERY PISSED OFF! I felt like I got screwed. Luck for me, I reported them to the B.B.B. and dealer fixed it for free. :cheers:


That is why we recommend the PPI BEFORE buying!

:)

silverboxter 02-14-2007 05:40 PM

Second owner. Bought my 2001 in September 2006 with 62k miles from the original owner in Beverly Hills. Now it has 67k miles. No RMS...but you guys are sure scaring the spit out of me! I love this car and plan on keeping it forever.

porsche986spyder 02-19-2007 07:12 AM

So is it an engine oil leak? Or a transmission fluid leak? Just curious.
 
So is it an engine oil leak? Or a transmission fluid leak? Just curious.

RandallNeighbour 02-19-2007 07:22 AM

A failing RMS produces an oil leak.

RandallNeighbour 02-19-2007 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverboxter
No RMS...but you guys are sure scaring the spit out of me!

When I heard about it it freaked me out too! However, after a couple of months I realized it's just another repair that you may or may not need. If it happens, it will probably start dripping a little before it drips a lot and you can see it and take care of it before it gets bad and you lose any significant amount of oil.

My buddy has a 2001 Toyota ForeRunner that's a really nice, low mileage car and he takes great care of it. He had to put in a new engine about six months ago. Even dependable Toyotas have problems...

Blueboxster22 04-15-2007 12:53 PM

RMS issue
 
Hi,
Just resgistered today on 986 forum. You hit on a very serious issue. I have researched the RMS failure thing for the past few weeks since my 2001 Boxster just experienced this failure along with the IMS and valve gaskets. This is an epidemic which Porsche has turned their heads on. The bottom line is you own a Boxster, you probably will experience this issue some time before 60,000 miles. All the Porshe related web sites I have been on state the same. If oyu want to talk about a class action suit, this would be a good one. I spoke to both Porsche and my local dealer and they both said no to a good will offering to help defray the cost. I ended up finding an excellent local German car mechanic who will be doing it for almost half the cost of the rip off dealer price. Here are some specs on my Boxster:
2001 Boxster
53,000 miles
oil changes every 5,000 miles usually once a year with mobil 1 (0-40)
all maintainence done as directed by manual

Rick



Quote:

Originally Posted by MikenOH
Please answer yes or no to the following questions related to RMS and engine failure. Please include particular information in your response regarding the year, mileage, model, whether the car was purchased new or used, transmission type, driving style and adherence to scheduled maintenance and break-in recommendations. Thanks for participating. (hope this appears as intended)


Have you experienced a RMS leak? (yes/no)
Have you experienced mutiple RMS leaks (yes/no)
Have you experienced an engine failure (yes/no)


Ed Hess 04-26-2007 04:02 AM

My RMS Saga
 
Here is my RMS saga:

I bought a 2003 Porsche Boxster in a private sale on 4/10/2006 with 44, 050 miles on it and the warranty was in effect until 12/12/2006 or 50K miles.

I had the car inspected on 4/14/2006 and was told the rear main seal (rms) was starting to leak. I took it to Brandywine Porsche (SE PA) on 4/28/2006 at 44,568 miles and had the RMS replaced under warranty. It started leaking again a few months later so I took it to a different Porsche dealer (Don Rosen - largest Porsche dealer in PA) thinking they might be able to do a better job. This was on 11/9/2006 at 47,500 miles and it was replaced under warranty again.

I took it to be inspected again this April and was told the rms was starting to seep again. I took it into to Don Rosen Porsche on 4/17/2007 and they agreed in writing that there was "very slight oil seepage" but told me unless it is dripping on the ground and there is noticeable oil on the bottom of the car Porsche will not fix it. They did offer to look at it again in another 1K miles but told me "warranty work is only guaranteed during the warranty period."

I found this unacceptable and contacted Porsche Cars North America on 4/23/2007 and opened case #5123516. The regional rep left me a message on 4/24/2007 and said "to contact Don Rosen with the understanding that the car is out of warranty and any further repairs would be your responsibility."

There have been a large number of cases where Porsche has replaced the engine after multiple rms fixes according to a number of on-line message boards (www.ppbb.com etc.). I think if a seal is seeping it has failed and will only get worse so that is why I need to move on this. Obviously, they have not been able to fix it while it was under warranty. I think their policy would not hold up in court and I have a good case which I am currently getting counsel from an attorney on.

I don't think I'm covered under the PA Lemon law because it is just for the first 12 months and 3 repair attempts. The Federal Lemon Law (Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act) looks more promising:

§ 2304. Federal minimum standards for warranties

(a) Remedies under written warranty; duration of implied warranty; exclusion or limitation on consequential damages for breach of written or implied warranty; election of refund or replacement
In order for a warrantor warranting a consumer product by means of a written warranty to meet the Federal minimum standards for warranty—
(1) such warrantor must as a minimum remedy such consumer product within a reasonable time and without charge, in the case of a defect, malfunction, or failure to conform with such written warranty;
(2) notwithstanding section 2308 (b) of this title, such warrantor may not impose any limitation on the duration of any implied warranty on the product;
(3) such warrantor may not exclude or limit consequential damages for breach of any written or implied warranty on such product, unless such exclusion or limitation conspicuously appears on the face of the warranty; and
(4) if the product (or a component part thereof) contains a defect or malfunction after a reasonable number of attempts by the warrantor to remedy defects or malfunctions in such product, such warrantor must permit the consumer to elect either a refund for, or replacement without charge of, such product or part (as the case may be). The Commission may by rule specify for purposes of this paragraph, what constitutes a reasonable number of attempts to remedy particular kinds of defects or malfunctions under different circumstances. If the warrantor replaces a component part of a consumer product, such replacement shall include installing the part in the product without charge.

Brucelee 04-26-2007 06:21 AM

Go get them.

Can you hear all of us cheering?

AUDIOGUY 04-26-2007 02:56 PM

I am afraid to pick one of the catagories. If I select "No" my luck is that I will wake up tomorrow with a spot in my garage!

MikenOH 04-27-2007 06:59 AM

Since you've had multiple seal failures
 
( the original and 2 replacements) it would seem that the seal failure is the symptom of having a crank that isn't concentric--or at least within Porsche specs.

The proper fix would be an engine replacement which will probably be difficault to get out of Porsche. My guess is if you where the original owner, it might be easier sledding on this, but..

Given the history of leakage before the warranty expired--indicating this wasn't just a bad seal--you would think Porsche would do the right thing.

Anyway, best of luck with it.

shelloiluk 09-11-2007 09:17 AM

rms seal warranty repair by porcshe
 
Hi there,

My RMS was replaced by Porsche UK dealership in July 2007, its a 2003 March model.

despite very high miles this was repaired FOC under the 5 yr warranty no questions asked

Porsche UK also suggested clutch replacement, I paid for the unit and they provided free labour as they had to access the clutch unit anyway for RMS replacement.

Good luck with your RMS warranty issue.

Just thinking does anyone know if porsche developed a brain and resolved this whole issue on the 987 model ?

RandallNeighbour 09-11-2007 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelloiluk
Just thinking does anyone know if porsche developed a brain and resolved this whole issue on the 987 model ?

No.

They still have RMS issues with Boxsters and Caymans. They also have RMS issues with Cayennes as well. Note that the problem isn't so much with the seal itself, although a few have failed on their own... its with the drivetrain parts that are not made right and spin out of balance, causing the RMS to stretch and eventually tear, allowing all the engine oil to escape rather quickly from the engine.

wild1poet2 09-20-2007 12:52 PM

Are they on the 4th or 5th generation seal for a fix? Does anyone know if the Cayenne style seal is working well? It has been in use for awhile now. I also recall that using a GT3 Motosport seal installed in reverse was being tried in some cases with good results. Anyone else hear of this? Thanks...

richv 11-19-2007 07:59 PM

RMS Leak Repaired Under Warranty
 
A "minor" rms leak was picked up by my mechanic during the 30k service. My o Boxster is a 2004 with 31,000 miles. I took it to the nearest dealer who replaced it with no questions asked. When showing me the invoice for work performed he stated "this will be the last time you see this" referring to the zero charges indicated for all parts and labor.

porsche804 12-08-2007 07:44 AM

the problem you guys are having is ealily fixed, a 997 rear main seal put in correctly to the correct depth, (your porsche center should know this) and a smear of high temp grease on the inside lip of the seal ( the part that meets the crankshaft) the grease stops the seal being burnt at first start up. im still waiting to see one leak after four years,

tweetdriver 01-11-2008 06:37 AM

No RMS leak but...
 
2000, 45000 miles, bought it from private seller with after market waranty
I needed rear wheel bearing, cam cover, and water pump. All covered by
waranty. Thats a good strory!

95_dually 01-18-2008 10:22 PM

1998 Boxster purchased used with 90,000 miles. It ran good for 10,000 miles than BOOM. Catastophic engine failure. Still no RMS. LOL


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:39 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website