Pedros Techno DOF IMS fix?

[Jake Raby]

But eventually LN went to a plain bearing with significantly different load characteristics altogether.

LN Engineering didn't...

IMS Solution LLC did. LN doesn't sell the IMS Solution, neither does Flat 6 Innovations.

[Jamesp]

Kirk,

Thanks for pointing out the bearing life factor. Do you have independent calcs on IMS bearing life utilizing the 1.2 factor? I'm deciding what to do with my IMSB right now and have not had time to do more than look up the 1.2 factor for rotational arrangement. I'll run the calcs later, but would like to see a second set to verify my work. This may have a big impact bearing selection.

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by Jamesp

Kirk,

Thanks for pointing out the bearing life factor. Do you have independent calcs on IMS bearing life utilizing the 1.2 factor? I'm deciding what to do with my IMSB right now and have not had time to do more than look up the 1.2 factor for rotational arrangement. I'll run the calcs later, but would like to see a second set to verify my work. This may have a big impact bearing selection.

James, I'm not trying to design a new bearing for this application, so I have not run any calculations. I have no interest in providing any competition for LN, IMS Solution, Flat 6, or TuneRS. I am just searching, exploring, discussing, and even arguing about what is the best fix. It's difficult though because there is money involved here and some people are pushing their products with pretty hard sales methods. You have to read what is out there pretty carefully.

For example, IMS Solution has this statement on their website:

"By replacing the factory sealed ball bearing with a pressure fed oil-lubricated plain bearing, the IMS Solution eliminates potential damaged caused by foreign object debris, eliminating 11 wear components from the assembly."

I think this is misleading at best, but more likely deceptive. 11 wear components are eliminated, really? I call baloney on that one in a heartbeat. The bearing is eliminated and the weak shaft that presses into the inner race of the bearing is eliminated. So what are the 11 components then? Well this is an extreme stretch, but I honestly think they are counting the eight individual balls in the bearing as being separate "components", the inner race, the outer race, and then the shaft = 11. When Porsche assembled these engines though they only bought two components from suppliers - the bearing and shaft. Calling that 11 components to try to make the change seem more significant is baloney.

So tread carefully and try to sift through the baloney.

If you want to post your calculations for sizing a bearing, feel free to. I am sure you can get some good feedback. You are limited though simply by what will FIT inside the IMS. If you look at off-the-shelf ceramic bearings be careful about the cage material. Most use a nylon cage. I don't believe the IMS Retrofit does. I believe that is what makes their bearing "custom" is that it probably uses a steel cage or some other metal. I would check the temperature rating for the nylon cages that are standard on ceramic bearings. I don't believe they will hold up in this environment and I believe that is the main factor that stops most folks from just grabbing any old ceramic bearing and selling it as an IMS fix.

Kirk Bristol

[V-Rod]

Kirk,

While I have enjoyed this thread and the depth of the discussion. I do feel that your few use of words discount this thread and your your participation.

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by V-Rod

Kirk,

While I have enjoyed this thread and the depth of the discussion. I do feel that your few use of words discount this thread and your your participation.

Sorry if I've offended. I've edited my post to tone it down. I get too passionate when it comes to engineering and technical discussions. I just love this stuff!

Kirk

[V-Rod]

Originally Posted by Kirk

Sorry if I've offended. I've edited my post to tone it down.

Kirk

All is good...

[thom4782]

To me, this whole DOF debate is really simple. If one sets aside all the theorizing about why IMSBs fail and starts from the point where one has installed an unsealed ceramic replacement bearing, the DOF question boils down to these two questions:

1. Does DOF substantially extend the operating lifetimes of unsealed ceramic replacement IMSBs compared to ones lubricated by being submerged in sump oil and splash oil?
2. Does DOF create additional risks to engine and IMSB longevity and reliability?

No one that I know of has put a number on the table (or even an estimate for that matter) that answers the first question. If the answer to the first question is "no" or "not by much", then one doesn't need to know the answer to the second question because it wouldn't make sense to take the risk.

[Jake Raby]

Those 8 balls inside the single row IMSB sure do become "individual components" when they are expelled into the engine oil and create engine wide collateral damage.

Kirk,
You are not the first to point out the outer race rotation Vs inner race rotation. No gold star yet.

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

LN Engineering didn't...
IMS Solution LLC did. LN doesn't sell the IMS Solution, neither does Flat 6 Innovations.

So you are saying that LN and Flat 6 had nothing to do with the development of the IMS Solution??? Just because you started a LLC to cover your other businesses from liability lawsuits means very little if it is still the same people (George Navarro and Jake Raby).

Jake, you didn't answer my question though, do I get the gold star for exposing your super secret, the one that Charles was going to take to his grave???

I can see how this is significant. It should have had an impact on the class action suit against Porsche as their DESIGN is flawed and compromises the bearing! I can also see why Feelyx's idea got bought out for a patent. Yes, he was working on a direct oil feed system, but that's pretty straight forward. The main project he was working on was moving the bearing out of the shaft. He was focused on using a bigger bearing, but his design also moved the rotational point from the outer race to the inner race. I don't know if he realized that this one change would increase the life of the bearing by 20%.

Who has done an IMS change (New Oil Fed Design Idea) - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

Kirk Bristol