Eibach sway bars......

[Boxster586]

I've done my search. I've read many good posts about M030, ROW M030, H & R, Tarret, and others. There has been a few good posts on tires first and sway bars later as well. I'm looking for someone who has installed this exact kit on their Boxster and some feed back on it's performance and installation issues.

Eibach Sway Bar, Eibach Anti Roll Kit, Eibach Anti Sway Bars

The kit is just a front and rear sways with bushings. The sizes are 24mm front and 19 mm rear. Similar to the ROW M030 except they're solid bars not hollow like the M030s. I've also read that the solid bars are stiffer than the hollow ones but have no idea to what extent or even if it's truly stiffer. Any opinion on the Eibachs is greatly appreciated.

TIA.

[LAP1DOUG]

It sounds like you have made up your mind what you want, so I will not try to dissuade. I do not have this set up, but can offer the following info:

1- Sway bar stiffness is a function of the 4th power of the bar OD, so the OD is all important, and a solid bar will not be much stiffer than a hollow bar. Purchase Fred Puhn's excellent book, and you can calculate it yourself.

2- According to my set-up notes, my 986S had originally a 24 mm front bar, and 19 mm rear bar, so I don't see this set up being much stiffer than my original stock set-up, but yours may be different. According to my calculations, my original stock bar had a stiffness of about 330 lb/in. For reference, the GT3 front bar at position 1 of 5 (softest setting) is about 430 lb/in. You can get the dimensions and calculate the H&R bar for comparison.

3- The way I see it the real advantage of a front bar on these cars is camber control needed due to the poor camber curves in roll with a McStrut suspension. Adding stiffness in the front should reduce understeer up to the point where you have the best camber control you can get, then after that weight transfer effects take over, and it will start to increase understeer. Trial and error is needed to find this sweet spot.

4- I don't really see what changing the rear bar is all about.

Good luck

[Topless]

I've never used them. Reports from those who have: "Eibachs are stiff as hell!" Caveat: This is hearsay only and not personal experience. YMMV
Try a base M030 bar on the rear and leave the front alone. Guys in the know say this is the trick setup. Much improved rotation but not so stiff you give up traction on corner exit. My brother runs this setup to good effect. Try it, you might like it.

[Boxster586]

Thank you guys. As a newbie to Boxsters and track driving events, I really appreciate your inputs.

The following questions and statements may seem confusing but that is because I am confused.

My car, contrary to what I've read here, has a lot of oversteer (or so I think). In corners, at the limit, I can easily pop the rear end loose by tapping on the gas. Being a newbie with so so throttle control, this somewhat intimidates me. I tend to brake too hard and take corners too slow as a result. So much momentum is lost because of this.

The two things I'm looking for with this sway bar kit are:

1. Just a tiny bit less body roll
2. A little more grip in the back

I think if I can get these two things, the car would feel more balanced for ME.

Having said the above, it could just be that my tires suck and is a contributing factor to my loss of grip. The tread is deep because they're fairly new (I'm guessing 7/32" to 8/32" ). I'm running 18" Hankook Ventus V12 at 31 psi cold for the fronts and 36 psi cold for the rears. My front tires are not rolling over as the wear marks are near but not touching the little triangular wear indicators. The wear on the rear tires indicate that they're even farther away from rolling over. I do have a 4 year old set of Michellin Pilot Sport with 4/32" that I may try at my next track day. I've been hesitant in using them because of the age of the tires.....too old?

I'm so very envious of members who lives and hour or two from the a track. I have a six hour drive to the nearest track so I really have to make the most out of these track days. Your inputs helps me to think through some of the things I may experiment with to get the most out of these track days.

By the way, I picked the Eibachs because of the similar bar diameters to the S (I have a base 2003) and the price was right at $320ish including shipping.

Thank you.

[Topless]

Gentle suggestion:

Get to an AX, DE, or performance driving school and get an instructor in your car. After 6-8 weekends of performance driving with experienced instructors you will have a much better idea about what changes you do/do not need to make to your car. I generally recommend new drivers just get a set of quality street tires and drive the car bone stock the first year. Tighten the loose spacer behind the steering wheel first.

One of the best Performance driving schools in the country is being held in San Diego this October. Barber and Bondurant charge $2k for similar programs, PCA-SDR charges $350. It will transform your driving skills and I highly recommend it.

http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.cfm/event/event.advert/uidEvent/E9A1A289-BD74-BB8D-090B8A03E92B87ED

[MikenOH]

I think the street tires need to go; for the most part street tires rarely last a full session before getting greasy (loose).

How about something like a max performance tire that you drive to and from the track, on dedicated rims--Hankook, Kumho, Nitto? 17" sizes are very cost effective and they handle the heat better.

Not sure what the sweet spot is for your current tires, but I'm thinking mid-to high 30's HOT would be a better place to be. My Nitto NT05's like the upper 30 range hot, so I usually try to get them to 35-37 front 37-39 rear range. If you're starting at 36 cold in the rear, my guess would be you're over 40 when HOT. I don't think I've ever had a street tire that did well on the track when over 40PSI.
I usually check pressure either immediately coming off the track or pulling into the pits after 10 laps or so to check.

auto x--I attended an EVO auto-x school years ago which was very helpful but not sure if they are still in business; not terribly expensive, two solid days of going around an auto-x track and you learn a lot about how to drive.

DE--have you done any PCA DE's? If there is one thing about PCA events I 've learned, you will get an instructor with lots of experience that will help with your technique in addition to knowing what to do, where on the track.

Has the car been aligned since you've owned it? It would be good to know where the current settings are and to change them to a more track oriented setting if they aren't already there.

[Boxster586]

Originally Posted by Topless

Gentle suggestion:

Get to an AX, DE, or performance driving school and get an instructor in your car. After 6-8 weekends of performance driving with experienced instructors you will have a much better idea about what changes you do/do not need to make to your car. I generally recommend new drivers just get a set of quality street tires and drive the car bone stock the first year. Tighten the loose spacer behind the steering wheel first.

One of the best Performance driving schools in the country is being held in San Diego this October. Barber and Bondurant charge $2k for similar programs, PCA-SDR charges $350. It will transform your driving skills and I highly recommend it.

MotorsportReg.com : PCA - San Diego announces Performance Driving School (Fri 19 - Sun 21 Oct, 2012) info at Qualcomm Stadium, San Diego, CA 92108 (9128)

Thank you.

I do have relatives in Southern California so I may make 1700 mile trek to take advantage of those California tracks.......next year. Thank you for the link and the advice.

[Boxster586]

Originally Posted by MikenOH

I think the street tires need to go; for the most part street tires rarely last a full session before getting greasy (loose).

How about something like a max performance tire that you drive to and from the track, on dedicated rims--Hankook, Kumho, Nitto? 17" sizes are very cost effective and they handle the heat better.

Not sure what the sweet spot is for your current tires, but I'm thinking mid-to high 30's HOT would be a better place to be. My Nitto NT05's like the upper 30 range hot, so I usually try to get them to 35-37 front 37-39 rear range. If you're starting at 36 cold in the rear, my guess would be you're over 40 when HOT. I don't think I've ever had a street tire that did well on the track when over 40PSI.
I usually check pressure either immediately coming off the track or pulling into the pits after 10 laps or so to check.

auto x--I attended an EVO auto-x school years ago which was very helpful but not sure if they are still in business; not terribly expensive, two solid days of going around an auto-x track and you learn a lot about how to drive.

DE--have you done any PCA DE's? If there is one thing about PCA events I 've learned, you will get an instructor with lots of experience that will help with your technique in addition to knowing what to do, where on the track.

Has the car been aligned since you've owned it? It would be good to know where the current settings are and to change them to a more track oriented setting if they aren't already there.

Thanks Mike. The Hankooks Ventus V12s are max performance rated at Tirerack. Sidewalls seems too soft and the nearly full tread probably made them more squirmy than I'd like. If I continue to use them for track days, I will play with the tire pressures. It's possible that I need to run 2 or 3 psi less in the rear. I will play with this as I gain more experience on the track.

I should clarify that the two track days I attended were with instructors. They were good instructors that taught me a lot about that SPECIFIC track. We did not get into car setups for the same reason Topless mentioned........bone stock with factory recommended pressures for novices was the school of thought there too.

I will look for PCA conducted events in the midwest and attend them as my schedule and family will allow.

Thank you all for your input. Keep em' coming if you have more. I know I'm not the only newbie on this board that needs your knowledge.

[Boxster586]

Originally Posted by Topless

I've never used them. Reports from those who have: "Eibachs are stiff as hell!" Caveat: This is hearsay only and not personal experience. YMMV
Try a base M030 bar on the rear and leave the front alone. Guys in the know say this is the trick setup. Much improved rotation but not so stiff you give up traction on corner exit. My brother runs this setup to good effect. Try it, you might like it.

Does this advice still apply now that you know my experience level

Did the rear bar alone help with the body roll of the car?

[Topless]

Originally Posted by Boxster586

Does this advice still apply now that you know my experience level

Did the rear bar alone help with the body roll of the car?

I suggest leaving the sways alone for now. After a year of performance driving you will totally "get" the rear sway bar change. Body roll is best managed with sport struts like M030 ROW or PSS9s and I think it is far less critical than most drivers believe. Body roll adds forgiveness of driver input errors which is a good thing when just learning performance driving. Sways are used to do a final balance on the car.

All things in good time. For now just run good quality street tires (Hankook V12s are perfect), a performance alignment, good brake pads, fresh fluids, and seat time with an instructor. The rest will unfold as you progress.

[Boxster586]

Originally Posted by Topless

I suggest leaving the sways alone for now. After a year of performance driving you will totally "get" the rear sway bar change. Body roll is best managed with sport struts like M030 ROW or PSS9s and I think it is far less critical than most drivers believe. Body roll adds forgiveness of driver input errors which is a good thing when just learning performance driving. Sways are used to do a final balance on the car.

All things in good time. For now just run good quality street tires (Hankook V12s are perfect), a performance alignment, good brake pads, fresh fluids, and seat time with an instructor. The rest will unfold as you progress.

Thanks again.

I do hang out in Fontana and/or Ontario, CA for a week in May of most years (Tour of California bike race). I may have to come down in the Boxster next year and hit you up for driving lessons

Have a great week.

[thstone]

I agree with Topless. Drive the car stock with a high performance street tire for a year's worth of DE's. Then you will know what to change in the car to make it better. Changing anything other than tires now will only band-aid things. At this stage in your performance driving career, its seat time, seat time, seat time. You'll be amazed at how much performace you can get out of a stock Boxster.

I'd be glad to ride along and help you out anytime you're in Southern Cal. The same goes for anyone else on the forum.

[Topless]

Originally Posted by Boxster586

Thanks again.

I do hang out in Fontana and/or Ontario, CA for a week in May of most years (Tour of California bike race). I may have to come down in the Boxster next year and hit you up for driving lessons

Have a great week.

Any time!