IMS Install help! IMS bearing not centered

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by gonzojive

I am in a similar situation as others in this thread except that I have not yet extracted the original bearing. I have set screws in place but the bearing is off-center. Only 2 of the 3 tensioners are out. Some ideas for getting the job done from here:

1) Remove 3rd tensioner in attempt to center the bearing in the case hole. Is there significant risk of a timing slip from removing the third tensioner? I have an '01, 5-chain engine.

2) Try to get the engine to TDC, then use cam lock (which came with the ln retrofit kit) and follow ln engineering instructions from the top. To do this, the idea is to reinstall the tensioners and then rotate the engine manually to TDC. JFP stated this is unlikely to work because the flange from the ims bearing is no longer being held in place by the cover. In my case, the old ims bearing is still installed, so I think I have two options to keep it centered while I move to TDC:

a) reinstall the cover. Since the flange is now off-center I'm not sure if this will work. Plus, the flange is broken and would not be able to be secured from the outside of the engine case.

b) use the LN easy-out tool in combination with the removal tool to keep the IMS centered while reinstalling the tensioners and rotating the engine to TDC.

Any feedback on these approaches? I am especially curious about what the risks are when removing the third tensioner--I don't want to mess up the timing.

Image below. FYI, the set screws are just m6 bolts with their heads chopped off:

This is a very poor method of securing the IMS during the procedures.

Have you pulled the other two tensioners completely from the engine? Were you on TDC when you began the procedure?

How did you break the flange?

[gonzojive]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

This is a very poor method of securing the IMS during the procedures.

Have you pulled the other two tensioners completely from the engine? Were you on TDC when you began the procedure?

I am certainly not disagreeing with you there - should have at least ordered proper set screws. I followed the Pelican Parts guide that uses set screws and doesn't call for starting from TDC.

I was not on TDC when I began the procedure. I initially removed both tensioners completely, though they are now partly screwed in.

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

How did you break the flange?

Flange is partly broken because I cut off the nut that was attached to it outside of the engine case. I was not able to rotate the nut with respect to the flange and eventually cut it off because the flathead end of the flange was stripped.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by gonzojive

I am certainly not disagreeing with you there - should have at least ordered proper set screws. I followed the Pelican Parts guide that uses set screws and doesn't call for starting from TDC.

I was not on TDC when I began the procedure. I initially removed both tensioners completely, though they are now partly screwed in.



Flange is partly broken because I cut off the nut that was attached to it outside of the engine case. I was not able to rotate the nut with respect to the flange and eventually cut it off because the flathead end of the flange was stripped.

Wow... You couldn't hold the center stud while breaking torque on the center nut? Why?

Not starting at TDC is a recipe for disaster. The load from the cams is way too much and overcomes those measley little screws in a heartbeat.

There's one crank position where ALL the cams are unloaded, and that's at TDC.

You will not return the IMS to center withoutbremovingvthe loads from it, so you can't get the flange back on to rotate back to TDC; because you can't center it for re installation.

You now have to re- time the engine from scratch, just like everyone else who pulls the flange at any crank position other than TDC.

I developed the simplest procedure for this, it's been adopted by around 30,000 installers and you never see this post from folks that follow it.

[JFP in PA]

Don't beat yourself up over this; you are not the only one to have encountered problems using this method. Now move cautiously and deliberately to try and get the install back on track.

[2000boxster986]

Thanks JFP, Agreed!
Cheers,

[feelyx]

secure your crank like this before you release anything, are your cams locked?

[2000boxster986]

Hi Tim, thanks, I just but a brace similar to yours on this afternoon. Cams are not locked. I'll post some pics here tomorrow of the bearing and brace. Btw, do you still have that extra pelican bearing? Mine may be damaged. I'm interested if you do. Tks Tim

[feelyx]

John take some pics... a pic is worth a thousand words..

[feelyx]

Hi John.
sent a PM

[feelyx]

Which tensioners do you have out? also do ou have the broken shaft extractor from the ln kit?

[Topless]

Yikes! Maybe time to update the Pelican IMS procedure article and include critical information like locking at TDC and locking the cams?? Pelican IMS DIY Reloaded

[BYprodriver]

FYI Pelican Parts Info 1-888-280-7799

[2000boxster986]

Hi Tim, the rear tensioners are out I have not yet removed the front one. I do have the 'broken shaft' extractor from the kit but it did not fit on the new bearing shaft. When talking to LNE they advised they just now put the new hex extractor for new bearings (with larger shafts) up for sale so I should have that in hand today or tomorrow. Then hopefully just a matter of using the LNE bearing puller to pull the bearing out, then clean out the shaft again and check the bearing to see if it's damaged. If I still feel the bumping in the bearing I'm going to get another one. If not, then back to the freezer with it and try it all over again.
Seems like using the regular bearing puller would be the best way to go but I'm open to any ideas anyone has to get past this issue. Thanks, John

[truegearhead]

This job really can be a nightmare!
There are so many things that can go wrong

Broken exhaust manifold bolts
Broken IMS shaft
Bearing off center
Timing slips
Jamming the bearing halfway in during installation
etc.

[feelyx]

after you pull the bearing use a magnet and retrieve the shaft.

[feelyx]

John, you can use the extractor by knocking out the shaft, and inserting the allen screw they included in the kit. I will get a pic up for you in a minute

[2000boxster986]

Hi Tim, Ghezzz... Now I see how it works.... Silly me I was thinking the easy out tool worked a bit differently but now it all makes good sense. I'll go stand in the corner for an hour on time out.... Thank you for the photos. If the other tool doesn't get here by tomorrow I'll see about tapping the center shaft out of the bearing and using the easy out. Thanks Tim, you always come to the rescue.

[2000boxster986]

Hi Truegearhead, Yes you are so correct. There are definitely some sensitive areas on these cars and lot's of things that break. I'm thankful Wayne has written the 101 projects book as it has really opened my eyes to what we can do with these cars on a hobbyist basis and some of the pitfalls to watch for. It's an excellent resource. It's the book that gave me the confidence to go ahead and tackle a clutch and IMS change. It would be cool if LNE and Wayne's article were showing the same methods but it is what it is and both methods do apparently work. Hey, we're leaning here That's why we tinker. Just scares me when things don't go as planned. Thanks for your help here. I'll let you guys know what happens.

[2000boxster986]

Was just out cleaning up some parts and noticed something that I haven't seen in any documentation as yet. At least on my car the drivers side rear tensioner I pulled has less spring force then the one on the pass side rear. I assume noted by 1 spiral band on the case vs 2 bands on the other. So in case you didn't notice this it might not be a good idea to mix them up.


Just a little info to end Thursday.

[Jager]

Look at the head of the tensioner, you will notice a different ring count identifying it.