Was that at a dealership? With an OEM bearing?

LN has a list of those they regularly sell to and thus are presumed experienced.

But then you can say that about any part subject to friction. It will eventually wear and fail. I don't know of an engine in any car that is not subject to eventual mortality. When I look back to the cars I've owned over the last 52 years, the engines failed at a higher rate than that I perceive the M96 to be failing (on average).

Have to agree, the Rover Bosch 4.0 and 4.6 V8s from 2000 to 2004 have a much higher mortality rate than any Porsche engine.

the truth is that LN Engineering does have a fix but it involves replacing the IMShaft
Not too many people are willing to pay to have the engine overhauled just for that so they came up with a band aide fix by just replacing the bearing. Just ask them, they will tell you.

Most dealers are unwilling to put a third party part in a Porsche (at least in my area)

I have a small problem with their list !!! they want a monthly payment to get on it. That does NOT mean that a shop is better than one that is not on the list just because they give money to LN Engineering.

I bought a 99 a few years back with a blown engine.

When i put the car on a lift -- the IMS bolt was sheared off and facing head down
sitting between the engine and tranny.

this was a 99 tip with 92K miles on it.

mike

Be careful that its not the whole IMS gear shifting on the tube.

The early IMS tubes have this failure mechanism.

mike

I won't recommend anyone.. Because we end up ultimately responsible for the "other shop" should someone get hosed by them.. Thats the reason why it is a paid list at LN. For me there is no amount of money that someone can pay me to gain my recommendation.

Ims ok
 

Just had my 04 S inspected by Matrix integrated in Portland. They have diagnosed a faulty water pump bearing and say the IMS is OK. They have done several IMS bearing updates with the LS kit. They said "in good conscience " they could not recommend doing the IMS . They have 30 years experience and have seen only one bad bearing and no engine failures.

mine had no indications of failing when I took it up to redmond european outside Seattle....but it was extremely worn and on its way out. They also showed me a bag of failed bearings!

mine is an 02 with 66k miles.

This is clear as mud.

The insinuation seems to be that the L&N list of master wrenches has never effected a repair that reflected negatively on the list or people who admire said list. If that's the case, it's only a matter of time before a repair does not meet the requirements of the fickle and unpredictable public consumer and someone gets angry at a list member. What the list does not mean is that someone not on it is incapable of effecting the repair.

It just means LN is leveraging their reputation for additional profit.

WOAH guys, let's not get off subject, I only mentioned the list because another member pointed it out and I have heard some of my customers ask if I was on it. As you can guess I'm not on the list and that is all I will say on the forum about this.

The fact remains that LN Engineering have done their homework on this and as far as I'm concerned it's the only viable option to address this problem.

I stand behind my statement. Why would you charge to be on a list of prefered installers if it was not to make additional revenue.

To partially pay for the wasted time and bull**************** associated with said recommendations. When you to work isn't your company employing you to do a job that will generate revenue for the company? What's so freakin horrible about making a profit these days?

Nothing wrong with making a profit, the issue is paying to be recommended. It carries the same stench as finding out the Hollywood walk of fame is a track of purchased awards or when whose who in HS students puts you in Christmas lights for a fee. Ethics is everything, when we leave this life our wealth pile isn't what people remember us for, it's the moments and deeds. The honest wrenches in my town have full schedules they don't need no stinking badges.

So you expect that Charles will maintain a list of several hundred shops with all the data entry/update/verification that that entails for free? Maybe he does a credit check or a Better Business check? Maybe being on the list implies that the installer can call him for help if he gets stuck in doing your job?

(I come at this as the President of a home owner's association of 305 lots where the maintenance of the data base of names, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, etc is a several days a month job.)

Recall that Jake had to stop selling IMSR kits because the overhead of supporting those trying to do the installs was forcing him to have a full time employee just answering the phone. When your reputation is on the line and someone out there is doing the work and you are a long way away it is a tough situation. Will the car owner blame the XYZ shop or that darn LN kit installed by the guy that was on your list?

So you expect Charles will maintain a list of several hundred shops with all the data entry/update/verification that that entails for free?


It's not like he has to do it on an abacus, so um, yes, yes I do. I had to maintain volumes of dealer information and MSDS sheets, never charged a customer one dime for any of it. If you can market yourself in national magazines you have to give some simple customer service along with the quest if you intend to see dramatic sales results and loyal customers.

PS Since you brought it up how much is the fee? Share that with me and I'll be able to tell you if it's a "Missouri boat ride".

I think most are totally missing the point in Charles charging to be on the LN “recommended” installer list. I’m sure Charles gets a lot of requests for known or “approved” installers; so he maintains a list and charges the shops to be on it. Think of the fee as an advertising expense, if you pay the fee and get on the list, you will get access to business opportunities that you may not otherwise have come your way. So paying the fee is no different, and one Hell of a lot cheaper, than a small shop running ads in national publications focused on Porsche owners.

I also have to say that I totally agree with Jake’s comments; for some reason, there seems to be a decidedly anti entrepreneur bias on the web; and in particular on one other Boxster oriented website. I for one am totally unapologetic in the fact that I make a pretty good living by trying to fix these cars faster than you guys can try to break them. But I am also the guy with the investment in tools, equipment, and hired talent required to be ready to make that happen if your car decides to throw a code or fail to start next Tuesday. People that complain about what repairs or replacement upgraded components cost also seem to forget that if it wasn’t for people like Charles Navarro and Jake Raby, and the investments they made in their businesses, you would still be getting hosed by the dealer, searching through the junkyard for a decent replacement engine, or selling your prized Porsche for scrap metal prices if the engine let go because the IMS bearing decided to go south. Jake and Charles made the investment and gave you new choices; as such, you do not have to take them up on these options, but you should also not be critical of the fact that they make money doing it.

Its unfortunate how people perceive LNE's list. I would think it would be good advertisement to be on it, so why not let LNE to capitalize on it?
I don't advertise, and work by word of mouth only, and wouldn't pay to be on a list. But, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be one, people needing the service will have an idea on where to turn to.
We all have to earn a living, isn't that the American Capitalist way? :chicken:

When Charles got tired of people whining when shops FUBAR'd the install he pulled the list offline completely.. Then people complained.. Now that he charges to be on the list people also complain.

Whats the bottom line? People whine no matter what.

Charles is a lot more tolerant of people's bull**************** than I am.. Holding a gun to my head won't get a recommendation from me! I'd rather be shot as deal with whiners.

There is nothing against making a profit on boxster forums. People expect companies to make a profit conducting the business that they are in. In the case of LN it is selling Porsche parts.

What they object to is, people making money off of information EITHER by selling data about their customers to third parties or charging third parties to have access to their customers.

Charging a business to be on a recommended list is in essence charging a business to have access to LNs customer base. It is outside of the perceived core business and that can be objectionable.

In other words, it gives whiners something to whine about.

Sure, people that expect others to act in an ethical manner are whiners.

Honor is like virginity, you lose it once

Only if they ********************, moan or WHINE about it.

I also expect ethical engagements from purchasers; its a two way street here.

So is it ethical to create hysteria in order to sell your services?

There is absolutely nothing “unethical” in what LN is doing; parts and supplies vendors often require shops participate in marketing referral programs. It might require carrying a minimum amount of inventory, or an upfront payment to be included in these marketing programs. Happens everyday…………

It depends on whether the list is represented as competent or just participatory.

I have been reading this thread and it seems to be way off the original topic. I guess I will add to that by throwing in my 2cents.
I would like to think that any intelligent and logical person would be able to read the available information regarding IMS or other issues with our cars and make their own decisions regarding if something is hysteria or whining. I appreciate having aftermarket options to address IMS or other issues that my car may or may not have.
All good marketing material shares the goal of trying to sell product. I hope we are all able to read marketing material and cull relevant information without being swayed or pressured into making a purchase decision on any product. I have read everything I could find on IMS issues, including Jake's and LNE's websites, and I have not experienced hysteria. I have driven my car from 45k to 90k miles with little IMS concern. I change the oil frequently, I don't lug the engine, and it definitely sees redline. I did decide last Fall to buy the IMSG and I will finish installing it this Spring. I decided that (for me) it was worth the relatively small cost to give me some warning if my car does experience IMS issues in the future.
I have no problems with Jake's marketing or whether LNE charges to be on their installer list. To me, both are examples of normal business practices.

As I stated above, don't claim to be doing the lords work if you are just swapping parts.

We didn't start the "hysteria". Our developments were prompted by owners of the cars and nothing more.

You are close enough to our location to come answer our phones on a Monday morning.. I invite you to do that for a couple of weeks and you'll see that this is about as real as it gets... Its 1440 here now and we have had three failure calls already today. Thats about par for a Monday after a nice weekend in the spring driving season~

Thats just the facts; some people can handle the truth and others choose to whine about it.

So "Tick, Tick, Boom" was meant to calm the hysteria?

Who died and left you in charge of the questions?

I like my questions. Are you evading answering?

Not evading at all.. Just don't owe anything to you in the form of an answer and I don't care if you like that or not.

Hell I liked that ad and it pissed people off, maybe I'll run it again.

Yes it did piss people off... I think it was the equivalent to yelling fire in a crowded theater and I will not do business with Flat Six or LN because of it. I am glad top be able to tell you so directly for the record.

I have no further comments to add to this thread.

Good. Look for it in Excellence in about 3 months time.

Recent IMS bearing replacement
 

Just got my 2002 S out of the shop last week. I left the car on jack stands elevated in the rear for several weeks waiting on some brake springs. It may be coincidence but after installing the springs and driving a short distance the air oil separator failed with very loud sounds and what sounded like rotating metal on metal. It only lasted a short time and I was less than 1/2 mile from home. Service maintenance light came on. Replaced the AOS but it just did not seem to be running properly. Cam timing was about -2 and -5 but appeared to be steady. Took it to shop less than 2 mi home. The mechanic dropped the oil pan which was completely clean. I change oil faithfully, but one of the first oil changes had some very tiny metal flakes on the magnetic plug. (none since). The clutch needed replacement and having concern about the metallic grinding sound I had the mechanic go ahead and replace the RMS (minor leak that had been documented at the dealer over 2 yrs ago) and the IMS bearing. The bearing did not look too bad but it did have a very slight wobble. It am a firm believer in preventive maintenance. Clutch, RMS, and IMS bearing replaced (LN). Runs much smoother and quieter.