Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Performance and Technical chat

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-14-2010, 04:32 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Collegeville, PA
Posts: 5
I am instilled with confidence about buying a Boxster

Or was. After reading some of the horror stories here, I'm sort of up in the air.

I'm a member of a ford forum, and a proud owner of a ford 6.0 liter diesel truck, the absolute most badmouthed diesel engine due to it's extremely high failure rate. And a grenaded 6.0 costs about the same as a grenaded 986 to replace, hard as it may be to believe. I am also about to turn over 200k trouble free miles, with proper maintenance from the start. Every once in a while, though, I start a thread saying how awesome my 6.0 is, among all the failure threads, just to remind people that it's not all bad.

So, please, tell me some success stories of your Boxsters please. Forums tend to be bias towards the negative, because generally people only check in when there's a problem. I've found a couple nice ones in the 30-50k range, I'm almost wondering if something with more miles is better, for the sake of anything that was going to go wrong would have already.
nasomi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 04:44 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 133
I'm at 54,000 miles on a 2002 Boxster S with no really major problems, knock on wood. Bought the car 2 years ago this month with 39,000 miles on the odometer. I've since used my extended warranty to replace:
- the inner and outer rear CV boots;
- a faulty camshaft position sensor;
- the air/oil separator; and
- the front engine mount.

I had the IMS retrofit done for peace of mind, but according to Jake Raby, my IMS was actually in great shape when he removed it. I still feel better knowing that the retrofit is done, though.

With the prices of 986 Boxsters where they are, it's almost silly not to pick one up and just start saving up your pennies for a rebuild when it's time to do it. The $$ per grin ratio is really small...
__________________
2002 Boxster S, 6 speed, Speed Yellow
RoW M030 Suspension, B&M Short Shift Kit, Fabspeed Bypass Pipes, FVD Brombacher ECU, IMS Bearing Retrofit, UD Pulley, Low Temp T-Stat, Brey-Krause Rollbar Extension.
231 RWHP, 207 RWTQ.
Banana S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 04:53 PM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: California
Posts: 40
There are good stories as well

I am kind of with you on the negative bias to the forums. I am not however of the belief that many OEM motors are designed to last 200k trouble free miles. I think most cars today are designed to last the warranty period + a have a good chance of making it through a CPO process. Also the water cooled M96 was designed and built at a time of high stress, and increased accounting meddling at Porsche. They almost bought the farm in the nineties for slow sales and margins (unlike the idiot financial engineering that caused it this go around). This was also the first go on the water cooled flat six in high volume. I would expect some problems with any large change like this. That said there are some undeniable weaknesses in these motors. Porsche should have adressed several of these sooner than they did with the evolution into the new 09+ MY motors.

However I have seen several higher mileage M96 motors that get beat repeatedly on the track tick along quite well. One example has an estimated 300+ hours of door to door racing and DE's under its belt and still pulls along well. Another with a similar usage has well over 100k and is completely trouble free. All of these examples are fastidiously cared for and get new oil frequently.

I would say buy one, maintain it well, do an IMS update from LN / flat six, and drive the crap out of it. Also have a good PPI done by a reputable Porsche mechanic. If the PPI is really cheap it isn't worth it get someone that digs a little deeper.

Looks like a few after market vendors have risen to the needs of these vehicles and is starting to supply both seriously uprated choices, as well as economical choices given the vehicles values.

I don't know where else you could find such a cool and rewarding car to drive in this price range. There are several cars cheaper, and more expensive but few have the overall package of the Boxsters.
smcgeary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 05:07 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Collegeville, PA
Posts: 5
Thanks for your replies. I'm not sure what the IMS is though. I'm pretty mechanically minded but I don't think I've heard the term. Also, PPI is Point to Point Inspection?

In my head at the moment is a C5 vette, audi tt, and 986 boxster, all in the 20k range for the bells and whistles. The audi, a bit more consumer-ish, with it's practical awd, makes good power and handles well. The vette goes with the mentality of an all american garage queen, and the guy that couldn't afford a porsche. The Boxster goes with the poor man's porsche mentality, to a person who knows porsche, but over all I like hte styling, and as said, smiles per buck is extremely good.

I'm completely set on a manual transmission, but what other features should I look for that if I didn't have, I'd find out about 6 months from now and say "damn, i really wish i had that." For instance, my truck has xm radio, and it's diesel engine, my rv has hydraulic leveling jacks, which no rv should be without, and my bike has 100lb of torque. I wasn't able to find a good spec sheet of what options were offered. I did find one convertible that came with both the cloth top and hard top, which I thought would be nice. Anything else out there I should be looking for?
nasomi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 05:14 PM   #5
Porscheectomy
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 3,011
About once a month or so someone's first post on the board is exactly the same as yours, they thought about buying a Boxster, read the forum, got scared, and looked for comfort from current owners. It's kind of amusing.
blue2000s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 06:06 PM   #6
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 244
PPI = pre-purchase inspection. This is a thorough going over by a qualified Porsche mechanic looking for accident repairs and any mechanical flaws.

As far as options go, there are many and they vary by year. Big ones are xenon headlights (litronics), updated stereos, 18" & 19" wheels, and full leather.

If you share your price target, we can guide you to the best years and options that fit your budget.
__________________
-- John
'00 Boxster S
'86 911 Carrera Coupe (Sold)
Lucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 08:56 PM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Diego
Posts: 434
I've had my '03 for 2 years (bought it certified pre owned from a dealership with 22K miles on it) and love it more than the day I bought it. I autocross it, drive it harder than most, and maintain it rigorously, and it's been trouble-free so far.

Maybe it'll last for 100K miles, maybe it'll grenade sooner than later, but either way, it's been worth it for me. I bought a $60K car for $25K, and I figure I've gotten $1K a month in fun out of it since, so everything from here on out is gravy!
__________________
1999 Carrera 4 Aero kit 4" UD Pulley
My Corvette doesn't leak oil... it sweats horsepower.
sd_boxster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 10:22 PM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,655
At least he's not asking "Can I afford a boxster for $500 a month? Ok what about $600?"

Worse case scenario, have $10k in your bank account so if the engine blows you can get another one put in.

Or just have the IMS retrofit done.

Last edited by ekam; 10-14-2010 at 10:25 PM.
ekam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 02:33 AM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Collegeville, PA
Posts: 5
I was looking in the 20k range price-wise. However I don't like to put hard numbers on things, it sometimes makes you compromise on what you want, and I'm not a big fan of compromises.

Yeah, I have to have 10k set aside at any given time in case my truck engine grenades.

So the IMS retrofit solves the weak point in the engine making it much more reliable?
nasomi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 05:27 AM   #10
Crazy Austrian
 
harryrcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 268
I'm surprised no one mentioned to get a Boxster "S" or did I miss it. I got an 04 S 2 years ago, have over 51k on it, track it every DE session drive really hard, take it to every Auto Cross, drive really hard, I think the secret is to drive it often, change your oil and filter often at least every 5k and you should not have problems, if you are really afraid you get the IMS (intermediate shaft) bearing changed
A friend of mine has the same year S and he tracks it with me only his has nearly 100k on it without an IMS upgrade
So I say go for it, the only options really worth anything are the litronic lights and the bose speaker system IMO. then you can go crazy like me and put on every mod ever made ( I also had 2 AOS failures but finally decided to go with the motorsport AOS) so far so good.
__________________
Crazy Austrian 007
http://www.ws-ab.com
harryrcb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 06:15 PM   #11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Collegeville, PA
Posts: 5
I actually just discovered the boxster s. I think an 00+ boxster s is what i'm looking for. 00-01 is listed as 249hp and 02-04 is listed as 255hp, vs the 201-218hp of the non-s's through the years. I am gonna call a guy about an 01 6speed boxster s with 45k and 18" pirelli's. I'll let you know how i make out. For the record I'm not looking to auto-cross, i drive a mammoth vehicle every other day of hte week, I just want a spirited drive here and there. When I do drive, I drive hard though.
nasomi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 01:59 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: cape coral florida
Posts: 64
go for it

You want one so take a chance and enjoy a car that will give you smiles.Who knows what the future holds.I owned a audi tt and loved it(my motherin law just fit in the back seat).But the porsche has better handling and a bigger smile.I had to buy a second car(for my myher in law) Oh well.
lahalte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 02:14 PM   #13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tampa Florida
Posts: 1
Also looking; to re-join the ranks.

Thanks for the thread, I'm the guy looking for the same information so this was very useful and I don't need to re-run the thread. I'm looking at a 100k car 00-01 S as I'm in the 'austerity' mode and figure for 12-15k I can get back in a Boxster if I am willing to go with more miles, I've contemplated a late '80's 911 but doubt I'll go that route. I've had a '98 Boxster, an '01 S and an '05 S, and loved them all, right now I've been in a Miata for the last 2 years and I can't believe the difference in the comfort of the cockpit between the Miata and the Boxsters, performance aside there is just no comparison, the Miata sucks.

The question I have is cost for the IMS correction, I sent a note off to Flat 6 and will reach out to them but I figure there are ballpark costs for that correction. Also I haven't heard much about the AOS issue, can someone give me a relative order of magnitude on cost and a quick description of what the symptoms are for this?
cbrubaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 08:37 PM   #14
Crazy Austrian
 
harryrcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrubaker
Thanks for the thread, I'm the guy looking for the same information so this was very useful and I don't need to re-run the thread. I'm looking at a 100k car 00-01 S as I'm in the 'austerity' mode and figure for 12-15k I can get back in a Boxster if I am willing to go with more miles, I've contemplated a late '80's 911 but doubt I'll go that route. I've had a '98 Boxster, an '01 S and an '05 S, and loved them all, right now I've been in a Miata for the last 2 years and I can't believe the difference in the comfort of the cockpit between the Miata and the Boxsters, performance aside there is just no comparison, the Miata sucks.

The question I have is cost for the IMS correction, I sent a note off to Flat 6 and will reach out to them but I figure there are ballpark costs for that correction. Also I haven't heard much about the AOS issue, can someone give me a relative order of magnitude on cost and a quick description of what the symptoms are for this?
the part is between 5 +600.00 depending on which bearing you have, labor is around 10-12 hrs you can do the math on what your shop charges, the trans has to come out as does your clutch and flywheel, so while you are in there you might as wel1 consider changing the clutch which costs around 500, so it's not cheap but worth it in the long run, go to LN Engineering web site and read his explanation of what and why things go wrong.
the AOS problem is simply put a crankcase breather that stops working, instead of returning the oil back to the crankase it fills up you intake manifold with oil, which makes a considerable amount of smoke come out your exhaust. Sometimes when you push it hard through a turn it injest enough oil to choke the engine which as you can imagine is not good. suncoast porsche sells a motorsport version of the AOS for aroung 650 which is supposed to eliminate this problem, It has worked on mine so far. Hope this was helpful, good luck with your decision.
__________________
Crazy Austrian 007
http://www.ws-ab.com
harryrcb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2010, 09:50 AM   #15
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
Quote:
The question I have is cost for the IMS correction, I sent a note off to Flat 6 and will reach out to them but I figure there are ballpark costs for that correction.
The ENTIRE procedure and EXACT cost associated with our version of it can be found in this article on my website.

http://www.flat6innovations.com/services/intermediate-shaft-retrofit
__________________
Jake Raby/www.flat6innovations.com
IMS Solution/ Faultless Tool Inventor
US Patent 8,992,089 &
US Patent 9,416,697
Developer of The IMS Retrofit Procedure- M96/ M97 Specialist
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 09:30 AM   #16
kpm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bowie Md.
Posts: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by nasomi
I actually just discovered the boxster s. I think an 00+ boxster s is what i'm looking for. 00-01 is listed as 249hp and 02-04 is listed as 255hp, vs the 201-218hp of the non-s's through the years. I am gonna call a guy about an 01 6speed boxster s with 45k and 18" pirelli's. I'll let you know how i make out. For the record I'm not looking to auto-cross, i drive a mammoth vehicle every other day of hte week, I just want a spirited drive here and there. When I do drive, I drive hard though.
I drive a 2006 Dodge CTD Mega Cab, so I understand the mammoth vehicle concept.

Absolutely do the PPI, I didn't and it cost me a thousand bucks to replace all 4 cv boots.

That being said, I love this car (01 S 67,000mi).
kpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2010, 08:46 AM   #17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 160
I have responded to many threads of this nature over the years and try to give prospective buyers a fair picture, although for some it may turn them off. I am on my 3rd M96 car after decades of Porsche ownership and I must say they have just kept getting better, even though all Porsches throughout the history of the company have had their individual issues in all product lines. Some are worse than others, but all are expensive to fix. That being said, normal maintenance and regular driving are the best insurance against catastrophic failures in all things Porsche.

The 15k mile oil change interval Porsche recommends is IMO a dangerous practice. I sold my first Boxster a 97 with 120k+ miles with no engine issues ever, no oil leaks, and only the known trouble items, ignition switch, water pump, auto climate control unit, radiator overfill tank, MAF, in addition to normal wear items. Overall it was a great car though a bit underpowered for my tastes which is why I sold it. During the same time and after I had a 2000 996 Tip which I used as a daily driver for 2 to 3 years, selling it around 70k miles. I had 2 bad water pumps, ignition switch, idler pulley plus wear items and that was it. I changed the oil every 5k miles on both. No oil leaks, no engine issues and one of the most reliable cars I have ever owned.

My current car a 2001 Boxster S I bought with 40k miles and have had zero issues with the car thus far at 55k miles. However, for performance reasons and for long term piece of mind I opted to invest in the full performance upgrade to a 3.6 liter from flat6 innovations. I am getting significantly more HP than stock, more pertinent I have added torque and throttle response associated with additional displacement and a light weight single mass flywheel which makes a huge difference in the feel of the car. It is quicker by a long shot than my 996 and easier to drive fast if not actually faster than my E46 M3 which is a little better than stock itself having after market cold air intake and cat back exhaust.

The extra performance is great, but getting upgraded cylinders, conn rods, pistons, IMS, valves, etc, and perhaps most advantageous to me; the expertise of Jake Raby, flat6, and L&N Engineering having done the development and ongoing maintenance to my motor, assuming it ever needs anything. I say this because prior to this development we were at the mercy of Porsche's engine exchange program and they were not overly concerned about those who bought their Porsches on the used market. Jake and Charles have changed the landscape of ownership of M96 cars and right now is the perfect time to buy. I now have what I believe is the car Porsche should have provided with an 01 Boxster. The car is lighter, the performance better than the new 987s and perhaps just as reliable as the new engines Porsche is building without an IMS. I still have way less in my car than if I had bought a new 987 and I intend to keep it as long as it runs, which at my age may be longer than my engine We have yet to see what issues the 9A1 will introduce, but hopefully Porsche has worked out the kinks in their water cooled engines. We'll know for sure when they start using it for GT3s and Turbos.

The bottom line is the Boxster handles better in stock guise than all but the most advanced 911s, and hence most road cars available, has two boots that provide ample room for luggage for two on a trip, and can be tracked successfully, if that's your thing, regularly, in spite of being a rag top. Amazingly the price of entry for a good car is ~15k or so. As with all Porsches and most used cars you should get a $300-400 PPI by a qualified independent mechanic who works on these cars regularly. I wouldn't use a dealer since they mostly replace parts under warranty. Once purchased I would advise at a minimum the IMS upgrade from flat6 and at the same time a new clutch, so figure those costs into your price of admission, then enjoy.
__________________
2001 Boxster S 3.6, 2003 E46 M3, 94 968 Cab, 80 911 Weissach Edition, BMW 1200 CLS
smshirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2010, 01:46 PM   #18
Track rat
 
Topless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cucamonga CA
Posts: 3,643
Garage
After 5 years of ownership I am still in love with my little 98 Boxster. She is now a dual purpose Street/Time Trial car and has been nearly flawless since purchase. Still the original 2.5L motor, trans, clutch, shocks, with 90k miles, never leaks fluids or burns oil. I change the fluids often and inspect the steering, brakes and suspension before every track weekend. With a thorough wash and polish she looks stunning!

As a nearly stock 12 year old car she managed to set the track record in Boxster Spec X class at nearly every track in So Cal this year. What a hoot! I can't imagine more bang for the buck. These cars in good condition can now be found easily for $10K. A LOT of car for the money.
__________________
2009 Cayman 2.9L PDK (with a few tweaks)
PCA-GPX Chief Driving Instructor
Topless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 09:22 AM   #19
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
Steve,
Glad you remain in love with your car.. I look forward to seeing it for service next week and a fresh fill of Flat 6 Oil..
__________________
Jake Raby/www.flat6innovations.com
IMS Solution/ Faultless Tool Inventor
US Patent 8,992,089 &
US Patent 9,416,697
Developer of The IMS Retrofit Procedure- M96/ M97 Specialist
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 10:08 AM   #20
Registered User
 
BYprodriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: O.C. CA
Posts: 3,188
Garage
Thanks Smshirk for taking the time to relay your M96 experiences. I bought my 2000 S on E-Bay in 2003 with 15,K miles & 1 year remaining on factory warranty.
Drove the 1,200 miles down Pacific Coast Highway from Oregon to So.CA to get home. During the year of warranty coverage I had the dealer fix a minor RMS & IMS leak, 2 interior squeaks & faint gas smell which after a couple trys turned out to be caused by a fuel tank sending unit seal. Out of warranty I have replaced clutch twice, CV boots @ 70K miles, water pump @ 78K miles, & AOS @ 82K miles. Thoroughly using but never abusing my cars I autocross with PCA & time trial with POC at The Streets of Willow and change Mobil 1 every 7K miles. Found 986forum a little over a year ago & started following the work of Jake Raby & LN Engineering. Signed up for Jake Rabys first M96 engine rebuild class in Feburary & just completed the 3.2 - 3.6 rebuild on the original engine where I discovered a very loose IMS bearing I estimate would have failed within 5K miles. No more Mobil 1 for this engine. Currently having a blast breaking in the new engine, keeping revs between 2000- 4000rpm. The added torque makes it so easy to start off from a stop & make turns in 3rd gear. Passed CA smog inspection with less than half the emissions from last test 2yrs. & 10Kmiles ago. Boxster S is the funniest device ever invented by man & the cost to fix the IMS bearing is more than offset by the current market values.
BYprodriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page