Engine noise '06 Boxster S
 

Has anyone ever had this problem?

Background Info: I have a 2006 Boxster S with 13K miles. Never driven in the winter. Oil changed every time it went into storage in October.

Problem: Once or twice a summer, I get a noise when I start the car in the morning (not driven since the evening before). (Never happened when the engine was warm) The engine starts up and there is a noise coming from the engine that sounds like a chain rattling. It lasts less than a second. The engine runs fine and there is no smoke coming from the exhaust. It almost sounds like the timing chain is loose (that is, if Porsche uses a metal timing chain). When the car gets out of storage in late March I will take it in for its 4 year service and get Porsche's opinion but I am worried it might be serious.

Any help?

Randy

If it goes away after a second it means that the oil has drained from the chain and starts running dry in the morning, and as soon as the oil pressure is up, it gets bathed in it and the noise is gone.
Generally this is common after the car has been idle for a few days, not just overnight.
What weight of oil are you using?
Where are you located?
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

I live in the Chicago Area. I have been using Mobil 1 and the weight is what Porsche recommends (not sure). All Oil changes done at Porsche dealership. So I know they are doing it right. (or at least they better be for what they charge me.

Probably hydrolic lifters.

The oil is the problem. Mobil 1 has gone down hill for some time, suffering from a litany of issues ranging from shear break down in as little as 2K miles, to loss of film strength, which is what is causing your chain tensioners to bleed down and make noise. Get rid of the Mobil 1 and your problems will go with it……………..

"The oil is the problem. Mobil 1 has gone down hill for some time, suffering from a litany of issues ranging from shear break down in as little as 2K miles, to loss of film strength, which is what is causing your chain tensioners to bleed down and make noise. Get rid of the Mobil 1 and your problems will go with it……………..

Is this something you just made up? Any labs produce these results?

Tensioners are clogged.... or have failed.
Common. See it all the time.

What are "Tensioners" and how is it fixed. Mine does this as well. Costly??

Mine made the noise when I first bought it in 05'. I was petrified for days that I broke something. The noise came right at startup.

I was told by the dealer and a porsche mechanic that it was the lifters. 5 years 40K miles later no issues.

The other sound that freaks me is when the breaks get wet and the car sits. When you try to go in reverse, it's a treat.

I'm no pro, but its the information I've been given.

How much would you like? we have been collecting UoA's for almost 10 years now....... Mobil 1 started going to Hell when Exxon bought them in 1989. They have been consistently reformulating Mobil 1 products into lesser performers, some even losing all their ACEA ratings in the process. The current version of 0W-40 took several attempts before it regained any ACEA ratings, and then only just. Mobil 1 once was a great product; unfortunately it no longer is.

There are several great full synthetics available that simply put Mobil 1, particularly their 0W-40 grade, to shame in just about every category, particularly the “ability to stay in grade” under high temp/high shear conditions, which the current Mobil 1 is very poor at.

wow... looks like we'll have to do a DVD on this.

I have a 2006 987S.
I live in the Chicago area too.
About 32,000 miles.
Winter hibernation.
Been using Red Line 5W40 since about 7,000 miles with excellent results (Blackstone oil analysis).
I take my car to the dealership but bring my own oil.

No tappet noise or tensioner noises here.

I am going to run Mobil 5W50 (hard to find) when I do my year-end oil change in October 2010.

"How much would you like? we have been collecting UoA's for almost 10 years now....... Mobil 1 started going to Hell when Exxon bought them in 1989. They have been consistently reformulating Mobil 1 products into lesser performers, some even losing all their ACEA ratings in the process. The current version of 0W-40 took several attempts before it regained any ACEA ratings, and then only just. Mobil 1 once was a great product; unfortunately it no longer is."

Again you site nothing but your RED opinion. Repeating the same thing over again does not change it from opinion to fact.

Anyone wondering why I NEVER make an oil recommendation can read this debate and understand my reasoning.

My direct experience with the understanding, development and modification of the M96 engine has proven to me that JFP's statements are real. I have been substantiating similar findings since 2006. LN Engineering and I have spent well over 6 figures on sourcing oils, carrying out UOA and collecting data.

I did that for the benefit of my engine program, not to debate keyboard to keyboard with those who have never touched the internals of an M96 engine with a wrench.

Last week during "M96 101" we got off on a small oil debate and I KILLED the topic in it's tracks.. Part of the course rules was no one asks me for an oil recommendation!

It takes only rhetoric to dispute
 

Experience to understand.

So do your own Used Oil Analysis and form your own conclusion.

And in the many "oil" threads, why is it we don't see a Mobil 1 supporter citing his figures to "prove" that JFP and Charles and Jake are wrong. Most everyone I've ever seen posting their figures on the subject comes to the same conclusion.

Why has Porsche quietly changed their miles between oil changes recommendation? Wouldn't be because the effectiveness of the oil they recommend isn't as good as they thought, would it?

I have been posting UoA analysis on this and other sites for many years. And my shop is not the only critics of Mobil 1 products; you can find similar data on BITOIG, Renn Tech, PPBB and other performance oriented sites as well.

Mobil 1 products, and in particular, the 0W-40 "approved" grade, once were PaO based Group IV oils that demonstrated great UoA's (high retention of TBN values, the ability to stay in advertised grade under high heat or shear, etc.). Then they got reformulated into Group III+ oils, and then down to Group III (or worse). This one of the primary reasons the film strengths of Mobil 1 products have deteriorated so badly over time. If you want to learn more, you can run a search and find multiple posts on this subject over the years as it occurred, particularly on BITOG.

As for lab data (we offer interested clients full UoA’s as a regular part of our service), Mobil 1 grades that used to demonstrate TBN value retention of 75% after 6-7,000 miles now have only 25% retention after only 2,000 miles of street driving. Grade analysis has shown that the 0W-40 product can totally fall out of grade in as little as 1500 miles on the street. We have even seen this poor level of performance in Cadillac engines, so it is not just the M96, or hard use; it is the oil. Mobil 1 15W-50 used to be the mainstay of the air-cooled crowd, where the oil performance is even more critical to the engine, but the stuff on the shelf today is a shadow of what it used to be, and cannot even meet the essential ACEA ratings it used to hold. We used to use Mobil 1 products as a standard offering to our customers; we no longer use any Mobil 1 products, and will not use them if asked to.

Unfortunately, as Jake just noted, there is something about oil discussions amongst the Porsche crowd that is akin to talking about politics or religion; reams of statistically significant data collected over several years get dismissed as “opinion”………………

At the end of the day, it is your car, so use what ever you want. Me, I’ll read and digest the available data and act accordingly…………….

The fewer miles between services the more oil is sold, and the more service is needed... Don't get me wrong, I mandate 5K mile services on my engines and believe greatly in keeping the contaminated oil out of these engines.

BUT not every selection that is made by companies is made because brand XXX is the best, in some instances it only means that someone got paid under the table to make product XXX applicable to of a certain manufacturers engines.

I personally know professional race teams who run a Mobil 1 decal on their car but you won't find that oil in their engine..

If anyone thinks that recommendations are only made for the sole benefit of the car/ engine they are sorely mistaken.

When new engines come from Porsche they are shipped with oil in them. I recently collected some of that oil when I dismantled an engine that we bought from Porsche to take apart and use for reference/ comparison. A oil analysis is being done on that oil now to see if it has the elemental levels that are generally associated with M1.

I'll close by stating that data can also be derived from simply observing the characteristics of an engine with different oils during start up and operation.

"At the end of the day, it is your car, so use what ever you want. Me, I’ll read and digest the available data and act accordingly……………."


Again - it's all opinion. What I hate about this board is too many people like you stating their opiniion as though it's fact. I's amazing that someone ask's a question and you answer the question (The oil is the problem) like your a Petroleum engineer. Are you?

I'm going to get some popcorn and watch this one...

Then the original poster should change his oil and see if the problem goes away. If it does that should quantify JFP's hypothesis that the oil is the problem.

Been there, done that and I am willing to make a wager that JFP is correct.

As a matter fact, I am an engineer, I have been a life long member of the SAE, and spent the early part of my corporate career involved R&D on lubricants and lube additives..........not that it much matters. You continue to say “my opinion”; which is not correct. My statements are based upon over 35 years of owning, building and racing various Porsche’s, a database that reflects over a decade of collected new and used lubricant performance analysis, and a lot of years professionally repairing and maintaining client’s street and race Porsches. I am also a contributor to multiple websites where the relative merits of various oil’s and gear oil’s performance and technical characteristics are regularly discussed. So, no, it is not just my “opinion”……………..

I was with you right up until the word "websites", gilding the lilly on that one.

Not really, that point is easily enough confirmed……….

If you can hang on "Bob is the Oil Guy" then it might not be gilding the lily.

I am a long time BITOG member, as well as multiple specific vehicle brand sites that have lubricant forum sections.

Instead of saying "The oil is the problem" the post should have stated "try changing to a different brand of oil - that may help".

Instead of supporting such postings as JFP who does not understand facts versus opinions you are doing a disservice to all that try and use this board. But that is my opinion - it is not a FACT. :)

Point is, Jake was, in fact, correct; even if you put a fresh load the same brand of oil back in, and the problem even temporarily goes away, it was the oil. Changing to another brand could offer a more permanent fix, but only if it is a better quality product than the first one.

Your continuing intransigence on this subject is a “poster child” example of why those of us that actually posses both the data and experience on the subject often decide to not waste our time by participate in oil related discussions.

So, continue to rant away, getting your knickers in a twist while you are at it; I’m done on the subject. Some want to learn, some just want to argue without any basis in fact……………

"Your continuing intransigence on this subject is a “poster child” example of why those of us that actually posses both the data and experience on the subject often decide to not waste our time by participate in oil related discussions"

Please - I implore you to quit "wasting your time". I don't think you help anyone on this board with responses like yours. :)

Actually, I will continue to offer my help and experience to others on this and other boards that want to learn. You, sir, are on your own………………

"Actually, I will continue to offer my help and experience to others on this and other boards that want to learn. You, sir, are on your own………………"

I used to think it was often challenging to distinguish credible training advice from false advice - not anymore. :)

Please stop using red color font,I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who gets a headache while reading it.

LOL...He is an engineer, the red font is the result of too many markup sessions, but I agree it is annoying.

First off, I would like to thank all of you for helping me solve my problem. It was very generous of you to take the time answering my question. However, I did not ever imagine that my simple problem would have caused such an uproar over oil. I am sorry if anyone has taken offense over any one persons response to my problem. I find all of your collective knowledge invaluable.

Thank you all.

Biang

"I did that for the benefit of my engine program, not to debate keyboard to keyboard with those who have never touched the internals of an M96 engine with a wrench."

Sorry - I didn't realize this board was only for mechanics that make money fixing boxsters.

Biang, another thing to consider is to STOP taking your car to the dealership. I took my 2006 to the dealership for the last time this past October. I'll be out of warranty in late March.

I now go to Fischer Moters in Barrington (Rick Fischer 847-304-8822). They just recently purchased the Porsche software to service the 987/997. They currently service my 1997 Turbo (993) and my wife's Mercedes. They'll start seeing my Boxster at the end of this year's driving season.

JFP /Jake - don't worry, sounds like Mr pboxstercar is a (semi) professional agitator who will vanish as quickly as the famous Phantom of a few months ago......

Steve, are you saying Mr pboxstercar is a disgruntled ex-986 forum member that got hit with the ban stick? That would explain a lot. He certainly seems like he has an axe to grind considering his newb status. ;)

Adam - could be, stranger things have happened to discredit JR & JFP .......

Biang - sorry, your perfectly legitimate question got out of hand. One of the most disconcerting sounds of the M96 engine is the start up "rattle" after a few days sitting - mine also sounds like a tractor for about a second after starting from cold, but once it settles into a 1200 rpm idle all is quiet, with no hydraulic tappet noise since I changed to Shell Advance 5w40 synthetic oil - which may not be available in the US.....
Be brave, accept it or go to a reputable shop for professional advice which will help you sleep at night.
We all have a vested interest in the health of our vehicles and I have found that Raby & JFP have handed out some sage advice to us amateurs in the past - red script or not.......

To Flavor 987S and all others,

Thank you. I currently go to MotorWerks in Barrington now, so going over to Fischer would not be a problem. My warranty is up this June, I think.

I have owned sports cars (more than I can count) since I first received my license (my first car was an Austin Healy). And have hung out with a variety of sports car junkies, but I have to agree with the PCA slogan. "It's not just the cars, It's the people". Porsche people are the greatest.

Again, Thank You for all your advice.

Till later,

Biang

Biang, please stop going to Motor Werks! They are aweful. The Porsche service writter, Chauncey, is a total a$$. I only went there for oil changes, and still dreaded the experience.

You will be very pleased with Rick Fischer. Let him know Bill with the Arena Red 993 Turbo sent you in.