Lessons learned: Buying a "used low mileage engine"(must read)

[jmatta]

And yet owners continue to think the easy way out of an engine problem is to purchase a used one off eBay or from a dismantler...

This thread should be required reading by any M96 Porsche owner if they do not wish to throw more money away at a problem.

[Jake Raby]

Yes.. A forum member.. I'd say he is prett active here because it took him 9 hours after my posting to write his email to me, ********************ing about my sharing of this story with his peers.
He made his own bed, so now he'll have to sleep in it.

Attached is a very general pic of the area of the head thats cracked.. The crack is too small for eyes that are not trained to see, so its hard to get a pic of. Its marked with the pale yellow marker near the spark plug recess.

I'll use my Hi-Res camera to see if I can get better pics for our documentation.

This is an area where M96 engines have head cracks, especially those employed in Boxsters..

If the person who did these repairs knew enough about the M96 to be making internal repairs to one, they would have known to look here for the issue... Like we did.

The last crack I saw in this area was much larger and could be seen with the naked eye at room temperature.. We repaired it and it's been give pure hell with no problems!

I agree that this story should be required reading.. The "purchaser" is very passionate about mechanical things, Boxsters and M96 engines and has been contemplating writing a book about his experiences with constructing his track car... This will certainly be a full chapter!

I have already published this story on my Flat 6 Site :-)

We've installed used motors for customers over the years, some with great success, others without. We put a used 2.5 into a customer's car last year, which we recently had to do a head gasket on (he elected to only freshen one side of the engine, against our recommendation). See our other thread for today's fun with that car.

In terms of the M96 motors, it's not unheard of to have head cracks, and sometimes, they can be very difficult to diagnose. Pressure testing is the only method, and since these cracks can be small, heating the head to temperature is highly recommended.

As to trusting an engine from a salvage yard, while we've used that approach many times over the years, it seems to be becoming more and more risky now that less qualified people are starting to put M96 motors together.

Now that we are an LN dealer and have our own M96 engine program in house, we strongly urge customers to have any work done by us, as we can control the entire operation and warranty our work.

[thehighheelsgirl]

This sounds like a horrible story, and I hope I never have to do anything like this with my car!

On the other hand, an internet forum is not a place for people to settle personal grievances or engage in name calling. I am a member on a couple fashion forums, and have seen some ridiculous fights break out in threads and that's not what we're all here for. As a new member here, I did read the rules, and it states, like I think pretty much all forums, that "do not use this forum as a vehicle to attack others." Regardless of how much dislike some of us may have for others, posting other member's names and contact info in a public domain like this is not right.

[Jake Raby]

thehighheelsgirl,

Trust that this forum will not be utilized for anything more on this subject than it already has been... I am well aware of the forums rules and will conform to them.

I know all about forum controversy; I've probably been engaged in more than ten thousand of them since around 1995 when I started posting to newsgroups and the like. Thats what happens when one thinks outside the box, gets big results and then shares them.

The "Purchaser" has come up with his own way of sharing this and when the time comes he'll do that..

Until then, I am just the bearer of the technical glitches and nightmares imposed by the "Phantom".

Where this story ends up being published might just surprise lots of people.

[pcs5978]

The Latin phrase referenced below, Caveat Emptor or "Let the buyer beware", certainly applies in this situation. As the purchaser of this motor, no one knows this better that me. But there is another phrase that people are less familiar with, Caveat Venditor which translates to ""Let the seller beware". The size, speed, connectedness and transparency of internet-based virtual communities means that if you're representing a product or service that is not up to standard, you're putting you're business and/your reputation on the line. Being "outed" to a community can be a very anxiety provoking thing and by reading the content and the subtext of the stings in this thread its not to difficult to figure out who the "vendor" is that needs to "beware". Me thinks he does protest too much.

Stay Tuned

[Rob-00BoxsterS]

Originally Posted by thehighheelsgirl

...On the other hand, an internet forum is not a place for people to settle personal grievances or engage in name calling... As a new member here, I did read the rules, and it states, like I think pretty much all forums, that "do not use this forum as a vehicle to attack others." Regardless of how much dislike some of us may have for others, posting other member's names and contact info in a public domain like this is not right.

I couldn't disagree with you more. An internet forum is the place to settle grievances pertaining to that forum and I don't see Jake or pcs5978 engaging in any questionable name calling. They are stating facts and protecting the community. I would be interested in Brucelee and/or Rkwie's opinion on this.

Personally, if I were in the market for a new (to me) engine, I would like some background on who I could (or couldn't) trust. Actually, make that for anything I purchase.

Many forums have a buyers/sellers/vendors feedback sub-forum.

Having joined our community only a few days ago and not wanting the identity of this mystery seller revealed makes me question your motives. Forgive me if I am off base with my assumptions.

[cvhs18472]

If an old animal has 4 legs, teats, weighs well over 1000#s and gives milk: is calling it a cow name calling? There is an old Polish saying that asks if a Pigs A** is still Pork--basically saying what is, is . There is no name calling here just a true story. Ed

[thehighheelsgirl]

I just joined this forum the other day after finding it on the internet, after I bought a Boxster last week to learn a bit more about it. I only mentioned my post in this thread since I've seen things get really out of control on other forums.

For the sake of knowing who to trust and not trust when buying these, if the source of this engine was a professional merchant, then yes, I would want to know where I can or can't buy from. I'm on a shoe forum (don't laugh, I'm a girl LOL), and there are multiple threads about what online stores to deal with and which ones to avoid. However, if the person in question here is not a merchant, while it's an unfortunate deal for the buyer, it's not like he's likely to be selling other engines in the future since he's not in the engine selling business. At least that would be my logic, those of you who are more "car guys" let me know if my thinking is wrong.

[jmatta]

I commend Jake for his time (which could be better spent) and efforts to educate the rest of us on the pitfalls of these engines (M96) and the new breed of snakes which have arisen looking to prey upon those less knowledgeable (and think they can get away with it).

Just remember, that shiney new "used" Boxster you just purchased could house one of these frankenstein engines...better to have the right questions to ask before you write the check.

[Jake Raby]

Just remember, that shiney new "used" Boxster you just purchased could house one of these frankenstein engines...better to have the right questions to ask before you write the check.

You got that right!! It would amaze you to know how many instances arise with phone calls where Boxster and 911 oweners have experienced engines failures and ALL they want to do is screw the next guy!!!
They ask me "Is there any way I can repair the engine cheap so I can just sell the car?"

I typically then go ballistic and remind them that Porsche people don't screw each other and they obviously aren't an enthusiast at the level they should be to own one one.

Nothing fires me up more than that!

[Jaxonalden]

Originally Posted by thehighheelsgirl

I'm on a shoe forum (don't laugh, I'm a girl LOL), and there are multiple threads about what online stores...

Let’s see, your forum name is "Thehighheelsgirl" and you’re a member of a shoe forum (didn't even know that existed ). Yea, you’re a girl alright and there’s definitely nothing wrong with that. You and Love Bunny should get together; she has a pair of boots you can appreciate.

Some older members might remember this from last December.


[IMG]http://986forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11415&stc=1[IMG]

[pcs5978]

When I bought this motor, I didn't expect to have all sorts of expensive problems. But since then I've tried to look on the bright side and I've discovered a new return on this "investment" - entertainment! Didn't really imagine that I'd find myself getting advise in Forum Etiquette from someone who frequents a "shoe forum". Wait a minute didn't Osama Bin Laden escape from Bora Bora wearing a Burkha?

[blueillusion97]

Wow, what a story! At least I'm glad to find out that there are still people out there that stand behind their work, and are willing to go such great lengths to make things right. When I will need engine work for my car i know where to ship my car!! I am electrician and i always fix smaller things on my cost that were not included in the estimate, i just cant leave things alone that i know are wrong. So i see where are you coming from, except your costs in this case were quite large.

I do pretty much all the work on my car, but i would never touch the engine. Once i worked on a much simpler Mercedes engine and it was not pretty, tried to save some money, ended up towing the car to someone who knew what they are doing and ended up spending 3 times more than i would have if i never touched it my self. It was quite embarrassing

And one thing thats certainly true, the seller of the engine is definitely not a porsche enthusiasts. Hopefully eventually it will come up who he/she is.

Originally Posted by Jaxonalden

Let’s see, your forum name is "Thehighheelsgirl" and you’re a member of a shoe forum (didn't even know that existed ). Yea, you’re a girl alright and there’s definitely nothing wrong with that. You and Love Bunny should get together; she has a pair of boots you can appreciate.

Some older members might remember this from last December.


[IMG]http://986forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11415&stc=1[IMG]

The things women spend money on.....

[Jake Raby]

who he/she is.

Now thats funny!!!!!

[Brucelee]

It is ALWAYS useful to remember that many on the old INET are not trustworthy or who they seem to be.

Why, I have even heard of men pretending to be women!

Now, who would do such a thing?

[RandallNeighbour]

I wonder how many women pretend to be men on this forum?

"... not that there's anything wrong with that!" -Jerry Seinfeld

[RandallNeighbour]

Originally Posted by Bob Hindson Racing

The things women spend money on.....

I own more pairs of shoes than my wife. And your wife too.

I can't pass a shoe store on vacation and not get a pair.

I tell my wife it should be tolerated. I pass dealerships all the time and don't feel the need to buy a new car!

[JTP]

Originally Posted by PlayersExpress

if it were legal I would tar and feather him