Brake upgrade - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

andicati · 02-23-2005, 12:07 PM

Does anyone have any experience in completely changing out their brake system on a Boxster?

Background: things can get out of hand pretty quickly. It all started when my brake light came on and I realized I would be in need of new rotors at the front. I started to shop around for upgrade kit options and discovered they were outrageously more expensive than I could afford. Not to be deterred, I bought some slightly used 996 TT brakes through eBay. Rotors, pads, calipers, all in perfect condition. Now I have 80% of the Twin Turbo braking kit available through www.********************************************.com. Surely the Porsche wheel carriers required to fit the calipers to the fornt end won't be tto diffcult to find? How wrong I was. They are on back order from Porsche Germany - wait time of 10 months minimum. Not to mention the pretty pricey too. So, being fairly handy, I will attempt to manufacture my own wheel carriers. If I can get the important dimensions, I will design the items in CAD and have them CNC machined from billet of even machine them myself. In order to jump start the project, I am now trying to reesearch all there is to know about actually changing out the rotors/calipers on a Boxster or 996 or that matter. Brave or Stupid? You decide. But the box of parts in the garage has me committed.

ps, I am doing the brake upgrade in part for aesthetics, and in part in anticipation of some serious additional HP via a supercharger or a 996 motor conversion.

mrssito · 02-24-2005, 11:46 AM

Well, I'm not even a Porsche guy, so no experience with the brake swap. But I admire your approach. Not too many guys or gals understand that going fast has as a prerequisite being able to stop FAST.

You might check out emachineshop.com - integrated design software and machining services. Design using their free CAD program, and then they have the part manufactured in whatever material you want.

Brucelee · 02-24-2005, 12:53 PM

I can attest to the fact that stopping is useful!

Good luck with the project!

Fletcher · 02-25-2005, 01:45 PM

The front brakes on Boxsters can easily go between S and Non S versions (simply bolt on). Going beyond that is unknown to me other than the brembo kits you see for 4k everywhere.
Your kit is obviously different. Try parts heaven for some used ones (hub carriers). Someone has got these I'm sure. How about Carnewal in Europe? There are lot's of places to try before machining your own. Pick up and Excellence, GT, and Porsche and 911 world magazines from your local Borders book store and start calling and emailing....happy hunting

andicati · 02-27-2005, 06:29 AM

Fletcher, thanks for the tips. Wish you hadn't pointed out Carnewal. They have some sick stuff. Looks like I am going to have to get a job.

Pilot2519j · 02-27-2005, 05:31 PM

I would check out Orton located in ATlanta. Ask for Neil. They do all sorts of work on the Boxster check the site for yourself.
http://www.ortonperformance.com/

JFP in PA · 02-28-2005, 02:05 PM

The easy way to convert a base to S braks is with the Brembo kit (~$3,000). Direct bolt on, no hub swaps or any other nightmares. I've done three, the Brembo Kit has everything you need. Trick to the kit is it has specially machined rear rotors that work with the base ebrake system. No fuss, not bother and replacement parts are readily available from Brembo.

Brucelee · 02-28-2005, 02:28 PM

For 3 large, I would drive more slowly!

andicati · 02-28-2005, 05:57 PM

Brucelee hit the nail on the head. 3k is a steep price to pay to avoid the headaches. There is nothing sweeter than simple bolt on kit but the way I look at it , if I can get the job done, even with headaches, AND I save some coin in the process, the feeling will be even sweeter. When I eventually get started, I will post some blow by blow pics.

By the way, the equivalent bolt on kit using the Twin Turbo brakes retails at 4.5k!

Brucelee · 02-28-2005, 06:06 PM

If it were me, here is the way I would handle a brake job. I have a very good, very reasonable mechanic who charges me about $60 per hour to work on stuff he can handle.

With a brake job, he can handle that fine.

I then go and find the parts, which I get at dealer cost. I bring them to him and I am usually out the door at 50% or less than Porsche dealer cost.

Obviously, I cannot do that on many Porsche repairs but when I can, I do.

I hope that helps somewhat.

Good luck''

JFP in PA · 02-28-2005, 07:29 PM

I've tried the twin turbo brakes, and while the mass due to the size difference will help disapate heat, I am yet to find anyone that has overwhelmed the S brakes...... In reality, brakes can become too large, and then you need to add more tire to compensate. "Seek balance, cricket".

And, unless I'm mistaken, the TT brakes will require a new master cylinder and brake bias system as well....................

andicati · 03-07-2005, 02:07 PM

Our learned friend JFP is mostly correct. Comparing the various brake systems we see the following:
Boxster Front 298 x 24mm
Rear 292 x 20mm
Boxster S Front 318 x 28mm
Rear 299 x 24mm
996 Twin Turbo Front 330 x 34mm
Rear 330 x 28mm

The increase in brake area shows:
Boxster => Boxster S: Front +20%; Rear +7%
Boxster => Twin Turbo: Front +33%; Rear +41%
Boxster S => Twin Turbo: Front +11%; Rear +30%

These calculations are based on rotor machined area, not the actual swept area which will vary slightly, but it gives you an idea of why the Boxster can massively benefit from an upgrade to S brakes as most of the braking bias is towards the front. The Twin Turbo brakes are only +10% larger than the S at the front which will most likely be hard to notice under normal driving conditions.

BUT! I don't have an S, just the standard Boxster. I do however, have Twin Turbo brakes. The marriage of the two seems be a good thing for slowing me down, especially after I have fitted a supercharger. As JFP suggests, larger rubber should follow the larger brakes. Luckily, I have the larger rubber already, wearing 225/45 and 265/40 17" Potenzas.

After spending a couple of hours on the car with a micrometer today, I have learnt that the rear calipers and rotors will be a simple bolt on with an 8mm spacer installed between the rotor and the wheel hub (as opposed to wheel spacers that are between the rotor and the wheel). I will see if I can utilize either the H&R or Eibach spacers, but they are both 7mm and will likely require the OD to be shaved a bit. Otherwise I will make my own.

The front system is going to be a bit more tricky. The caliper mounting bolts are 130.6mm apart on the Boxster compared to 142.3mm on the Twin Turbo. Also, the calipers will need to be raised 19mm above the wheel carrier to accomodate the large diameter rotor. This will then likely necessitate a 5mm wheel spacer to make sure my 3 piece speedlines clear the calipers fully, although I am praying that they will clear as is. I have a bracket design in mind, and will get this worked out on CAD to see if it will fit - anything to avoid $1400 + $1000 labor to install new wheel carriers!

I have been taking pics as I go along, so I will post these sometime soon so that other fools who follow won't be quite so foolish as me.

andicati · 03-28-2005, 07:29 PM

Progress to date: New Twin Turbo Claipers are installed but I miscalculated the rear caliper vertical positioning (i.e. distance from the center of the hub). The rear calipers require a 5mm spacer to put the pads in the perfect position for the rotor.

The other (strange) problem encountered is the park brake. The Twin Turbo brake change resulted in my park brake being completely out of adjustment. I haven't worked out if this is a "normal" function of messing with the brakes, or if there is some dimensional difference that I didn't notice.

Mods so far:
Front
- repositioned mounting holes on wheel carrier to account for wider spacing.
- 2mm spacer between rotor and hub to center discs in caliper and clear the dust cover
- 2mm spacer between wheel and hub to widen track and partially accomodate the rear widening

Rear
- 8mm spacer between rotor and hub
- 5mm spacer to raise caliper on wheel carrier mounts

Total cost so far: $1,640, including brakes, tools, and custom machined spacers. Compare with kit price of $4,495 plus labor quoted at $1,000.

The brakes look fantastic. Question is whether they will perform as hoped once I have finished this project. I have been taking photos and will work out how to post them.

Adam · 03-28-2005, 08:07 PM

Sorry to hijack your thread...but this is about brakes so I figured why not? Are the OEM brakes on the S made by brembo or Zimmerman? I see Zimmerman everywhere for replacement rotors. And, what is a reasonable price for OEM replacement rotors?

Brucelee · 03-29-2005, 06:41 AM

Brembo I believe

RandallNeighbour · 03-29-2005, 07:29 AM

OEM replacement rotors can be had for $150 or thereabouts. Check out FVD

Adam · 03-29-2005, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

OEM replacement rotors can be had for $150 or thereabouts. Check out FVD

150 for a pair? Wow, that's a bargin. thx.

andicati · 03-29-2005, 08:34 PM

For what it is worth, I have had two sets of Zimmermans on my BMW and both sets warped very quickly. I would stick with Brembos, but I am sure many people have had great success with Zimmermans. They are apparently OEM for BMW and Mercedes.

MLegere · 04-01-2005, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

OEM replacement rotors can be had for $150 or thereabouts. Check out FVD

Who is FVD? how do I contact them? After replaceing my tires today I will be in need of rotor's too. 150.00 is a great price I have been quoted 250.00 per set.

Mike

RandallNeighbour · 04-01-2005, 07:02 PM

http://www.fvd-web.com/

I could be all wrong, but I ordered a catalog from them and they had really good prices on sets... and there's a choice of factory standard (cheapest), cross-drilled (more $) and slotted, which are evidently the hot new way to stop a Boxster fast ($$$)

Call them and ask for your specific model.

BTW- I also see sets of brand new discs on Ebay that should work, and they're reasonably priced.