anyone intalled NHP full exhaust???

[Jake Raby]

The NHP is one of the better choices, heck one of our test cars (Charles' 2.9) runs the system and it was compared to several other systems.

That said, if you want a real comparo of the stock Vs the aftermarket system you'll dyno the car before with the stock system then drive it 150 miles and allow the adaptive to compensate for the changes, then re-test. when doing this test work I do 12 runs before and 12 runs after, I start the test with a coolant temp of 160F then test to just about 210F, generally run 5 is the best run all around. Make sure the tire pressures are the same, the straps are tightened the same (measure between the top of the tire and the bottom of the fender) and try your best to use the same regimen for all the tests. I prefer to test from 2,000 RPM clear to redline on all 12 tests back to back for the best data collection.

Also, post the results all across the board, the power through the midrange is where I see the most changes with systems.. Looking only at the peak number is virtually worthless for true comparison.

And measure AFR and include that on your graphs, please.

Remember, the dyno is just one tool I have been using for evaluation. Performance on the dyno is just one element of the "big picture" that I do my best to look at when comparing these systems as well as other components scientifically.

Do a 0-60 and 40-80 MPH evaluation and you'll see much more than the dyno has to offer. Look at the ECU files and see which tables the engine is operating under with different exhausts as well, then it all starts to make sense.

And remember that your stock system and the catalytic converters you'll be comparing against are XXX years old and have XXX miles on them. Over time fuel and lubricant deposits start to clog the cats.. To complete an absolute comparison with only one variable for an OFAT analysis you'd need brand new stock cats... Otherwise you are testing old Vs new and thats a rather large variable.

I look forward to your data, please post it once you receive it and take as manynotes as you can from the before and after.

[Jake Raby]

You'd have to be in my position to understand the flack that gets started when a discovery is made and shared.. Gathering the data scientifically without variables being imposed is hard enough, dealing with the people after it happens is unbearable.

Lets just say if you like to sound like you are going faster than you really are, then you'll love most of the after market systems.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

You'd have to be in my position to understand the flack that gets started when a discovery is made and shared.. Gathering the data scientifically without variables being imposed is hard enough, dealing with the people after it happens is unbearable.

Lets just say if you like to sound like you are going faster than you really are, then you'll love most of the after market systems.

Don't you just love all the marketing hype on the street.....................

[2K3_Boxster_S]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

You'd have to be in my position to understand the flack that gets started when a discovery is made and shared.. Gathering the data scientifically without variables being imposed is hard enough, dealing with the people after it happens is unbearable.

Lets just say if you like to sound like you are going faster than you really are, then you'll love most of the after market systems.

Don't worry I completely understand now, didn't realize your are a salesman.
scared of losing business to competitors.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by 2K3_Boxster_S

Don't worry I completely understand now, didn't realize your are a salesman.
scared of losing business to competitors.

Way to go...............why not insult one of the most respected independent Porsche engine builders in the country.......................Jeez

[stephen wilson]

I'm sure Jake is very good, and I'm glad he's helped develop an IMS bearing retrofit.

Having said that, many of his posts ,on this as well as other forums, come across as very self-serving, designed to generate some buzz about his company.

I know which brand oil is best, but I can't tell you. I know exactly what's killing IMS bearings, within a certain RPM range, but I can't tell you that either. I could tell you the best header, but I'd have to kill you, etc. Why throw out teasers if you're not even going to hint at the answer.

I'm not trying to be a troll, it's just frustrating for people who want answers, not more questions.

Steve

[JFP in PA]

Rather than look at this as “viral marketing”, try running a business (or even a website) that develops a following, and then use Porsche’s logo; and then watch how fast their army of lawyers slaps a “cease and desist” order on you. And they are hardly the only ones that respond to every perceived transgression with litigation; we live in a litigious environment were small businesses have learned, often the hard way, to be less than forthcoming with opinions, even well supported and documented ones, less they spend a lot of time and money defending their statements. And even when you “win”, you are still out a lot of money………………….

Walk into my shop and ask me my thoughts on this cold air intake or that brand of oil, and I’ll pretty much tell you my thinking. Ask me to post the same thing online and you’ll get a more watered down (read “evasive”) reply………

[2K3_Boxster_S]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

And remember that your stock system and the catalytic converters you'll be comparing against are XXX years old and have XXX miles on them. Over time fuel and lubricant deposits start to clog the cats.. To complete an absolute comparison with only one variable for an OFAT analysis you'd need brand new stock cats... Otherwise you are testing old Vs new and thats a rather large variable.

Lets go back to Post #1, I clearly stated what the setup would be (see below).
Now you are talking about putting brand new stock CATS back on for a fair test.
Why would I want to purposely restrict the exhaust flow? The facts were presented Bolt on aftermarket exhaust (headers w/high flow cats, bypass pipes, and performance exhaust) and you stated it would not yield any gains or possibly have a negative outcome. essentially a waste of money. Thats all I care to find out does it or does it not improve HP and Torque. as far as the AFR the stock ECU will not be touched or chipped in anyway. I will try and keep the variables as close as possible. Same dyno, straps, engine temps, IAT's, etc. No i'm not going to monitor the AFR. This is a simple bolt on test.

Originally Posted by 2K3_Boxster_S

Will be installing the following NHP full exhaust. slightly different from pics. I will be running: Headers with Sport Cats, ByPass Mid pipes, and the Muffler.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by 2K3_Boxster_S

Lets go back to Post #1, I clearly stated what the setup would be (see below).
Now you are talking about putting brand new stock CATS back on for a fair test.
Why would I want to purposely restrict the exhaust flow? The facts were presented Bolt on aftermarket exhaust (headers w/high flow cats, bypass pipes, and performance exhaust) and you stated it would not yield any gains or possibly have a negative outcome. essentially a waste of money. Thats all I care to find out does it or does it not improve HP and Torque. as far as the AFR the stock ECU will not be touched or chipped in anyway. I will try and keep the variables as close as possible. Same dyno, straps, engine temps, IAT's, etc. No i'm not going to monitor the AFR. This is a simple bolt on test.

OK, let's see if we can make this simple. I can't speak for Jake, as I am sure he has tried combinations that we have not even seen; but I can say that adding headers and an aftermarket exhaust show little, if any, gains on the dyno unless remapping of the DME is involved. Even after remapping, on the examples we have been involved with showed what I would describe as "modest" improvements, but not spectacular jumps. At the end of the day, the owners spent a lot of money, obtained slight improvement, and often ended up with incredibly loud cars...................... Again, Jake may have additional data points that we do not; but my intuition tells me he has probably seen the same thing.

[Jake Raby]

OK, here is just a taste of some data..
All of this was gathered from the same 2001 Boxster S with 51,000 miles. The car was driven 125 miles after each swap to allow for the ECU to adapt to the changes and below is the results.

I have removed the names from the run files and will not give any information in public or private abnout which systems these were. I will only call them stock, Test system 2 and test system 3.

The stock system was exactly that, it was the system that came from the factory on the test vehicle and it had never been removed.

I will say that test system 2 was bought at a price of over 2,000.00 and the purchaser is one of my turn key engine Clients. He has sent a letter to the company about this poor performance, but they have not responded. This system had the least drone of all other systems tested on this car and helped drive ability the most, but as you will see my customer spent over 2K bucks to lose 20 HP.

Test system 3 is also another expensive system, costing even more than test system number 2. Test system 3 actually ended up giving us some performance over stock, but only after the intake air was freed up and an ECU flash was applied. It did have a nice sound but that wasn't part of my evaluation (although Db levels were data logged in the cabin from each system). It did have a nasty drone and when I put it on my test car my Wife wouldn't even drive it.. She said it was louder than her '79 Beetle that makes more power per cylinder than most any Boxster on this board and she drives it everyday.

Here is the legend for the plots:
(for the torque and HP plots attached.)

Red= Bone Stock 3.2 Boxster S exhaust system
Blue= Test system #2
Green= Test System #3

The first set of plots is just stock Vs the worst, the second set compares all 3 systems on the same engine.

This is just a taste.. None of these were the NHP system, I did not include it in these comparatives purposely.

[edevlin]

"but I can say that adding headers and an aftermarket exhaust show little, if any, gains on the dyno unless remapping of the DME is involved. Even after remapping, on the examples we have been involved with showed what I would describe as "modest" improvements, but not spectacular jumps. At the end of the day, the owners spent a lot of money, obtained slight improvement,"

Yes, and yes, that is exactly what I have found and I did a lot of mucking around with intakes, custom chips, exhausts and three different mufflers. These are not easy cars to get hp out of, if I recall it cost

Intake 1.2K+
Chip 1.2k+
Full exhaust 4.0K+

This is with a 2000 base boxster and when all the dust settled I picked up between 20-25 hp and lost about 2 mpg highway mileage. I did most of this work a couple of years ago when I had some funds left over by getting a good price on the car.

With short shift kit, lighter overrall car weigh and light flywheel (Yikes!), the car is certainally more responsive and fun to drive, and my exhaust sounds great to me and does not have the resonance issues. But would I do it again knowing what I know now, no way. I would just put on a nice set of Bilstein coilovers, nice sticky 18"wheels and enjoy the ride....

Ed

[2K3_Boxster_S]

Originally Posted by edevlin

"but I can say that adding headers and an aftermarket exhaust show little, if any, gains on the dyno unless remapping of the DME is involved. Even after remapping, on the examples we have been involved with showed what I would describe as "modest" improvements, but not spectacular jumps. At the end of the day, the owners spent a lot of money, obtained slight improvement,"

Yes, and yes, that is exactly what I have found and I did a lot of mucking around with intakes, custom chips, exhausts and three different mufflers. These are not easy cars to get hp out of, if I recall it cost

Intake 1.2K+
Chip 1.2k+
Full exhaust 4.0K+

This is with a 2000 base boxster and when all the dust settled I picked up between 20-25 hp and lost about 2 mpg highway mileage. I did most of this work a couple of years ago when I had some funds left over by getting a good price on the car.

With short shift kit, lighter overrall car weigh and light flywheel (Yikes!), the car is certainally more responsive and fun to drive, and my exhaust sounds great to me and does not have the resonance issues. But would I do it again knowing what I know now, no way. I would just put on a nice set of Bilstein coilovers, nice sticky 18"wheels and enjoy the ride....

Ed

your talking about a 2.7L 217 hp versus a 2003 3.2L 258 hp which the same exact 3.2L in 2005 puts out 280 hp.

not the same platform.. Apples and Oranges..