Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Performance and Technical chat

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-01-2009, 03:53 PM   #1
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
Exhaust System Testing- I need input

Now that we are finsihed with the expansion of our facility that houses the M96 engine program its time to start gathering data at a much faster rate.

The first thing on the list of comparative analysis that we want to attain is exhaust system data. This data is not just critical to your stock engines, but is even more important to our engine program that has taken the M96 to a new level with bored and stroked engines with reliability updates, headwork, performance camshafts and about anything you can imagine... Od fahioned hotrodding applied to modern vehicles...

So, I want to buy or borrow one of every exhaust system avaialable for the Boxster ranging from the 2.5 through the 3.2... I want to run these comparatively on my engine dyno and the chassis dyno and I already have cars and engines of each displacement on hand now to begin this work.

The reasoning for this is to see if we need to create our own headers/ mufflers to compliment our larger engines and other subsystem enhancement packages, or if something is on the market currently that we can evaluate and endorse without having to create another unit.

So... Like everything I do, we are testing for more than overall power output- I want products that increase efficiency, make the engine drive better and hopefully make great power along with MPG boosts and more smile factor..

To do this I'll be applying the Dyno lab equipment along with the chassis dyno and then I'll plug our data logger into each car to gain the data on my 90 mile per day round trip commute to and from the shop.. When we make changes to the system each will be driven the same distance at the same speeds and capture all those channels of OBDII data as well as up to 16 more analog channels...

So, what I need to know:
What headers and mufflers do you know of? I know all the better known systems, but there may be systems that you guys are using that we don't know about and I'd like to test EVERYTHING available.

So give me the name of all systems you know about and the sources for them... Part of my evaluation won't just be performance, it will also be critiqued for fit, finish and material/ workmanship quality. Of course we'll get sound clips from each and Db readings in the cockpit as well..

What would be great is if some of you have some of these systems that are not being used(for some reason) that would let me borrow them for about a week to evaluate... I'd be willing to rent them as well.

We have the capability to make bad ass exhaust systems but we have enough going on already, hoping we won't have to create another product line for our engines...

So, help me if you can.. This is just a tad bit of what we'll be doing as I have dedicated the next 18 months of our R&D lab's capability to the M96 :-) I love data and we love having products that we KNOW EVERYTHING about and have the data to support the claims-
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 04:58 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 244
Steve Timmons of Instant-G created a custom system for a 3.2 S. It was free of cats and intended only for track use, but nonetheless he found that an otherwise stock 3.2 could make 290hp+ with his exhaust. Steve concludes that Porsche handicapped the original 3.2 S to keep a power and performance gap to the 911 3.4 of the time.

I share this info because I believe there is no doubt that to get full performance out of an engine larger than 3.0 or so, you need to do better than the stock Boxster system. Better flowing headers, freer flowing cats, and a more open muffler system will be needed.

Of course, your scientific approach using an engine dyno is the best way to prove this out.

I'm sorry to say that I just sold a stock S muffler or I would have gladly sent it to you...

Good luck.
__________________
-- John
'00 Boxster S
'86 911 Carrera Coupe (Sold)
Lucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 06:17 PM   #3
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
We already know the 3.2 is seriously handicapped, it uses the same heads as the 3.4 and has lots of capability.. But when we take the 3.2 base to 3.6 thats when things really happen.

Thanks for the input about this exhaust.

I have done many exhaust system shootouts for our aircooled engines and all that expoerioence and equipment is being applied to the M96 now..
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 02:55 AM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NEPA
Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
Steve Timmons of Instant-G created a custom system for a 3.2 S. It was free of cats and intended only for track use, but nonetheless he found that an otherwise stock 3.2 could make 290hp+ with his exhaust. Steve concludes that Porsche handicapped the original 3.2 S to keep a power and performance gap to the 911 3.4 of the time.

I share this info because I believe there is no doubt that to get full performance out of an engine larger than 3.0 or so, you need to do better than the stock Boxster system. Better flowing headers, freer flowing cats, and a more open muffler system will be needed.

Of course, your scientific approach using an engine dyno is the best way to prove this out.

I'm sorry to say that I just sold a stock S muffler or I would have gladly sent it to you...

Good luck.
Jake, I am the one who bought the muffler. If you need to use it I will send it out to you as soon as I receive it. If so send me a PM. Ed
cvhs18472 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 03:31 AM   #5
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
That would be great! Is it a header set up, or just a muffler...
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 03:57 AM   #6
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NEPA
Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Raby
That would be great! Is it a header set up, or just a muffler...
Just a muffler, Ed
cvhs18472 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 04:10 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Clarksville, Tn
Posts: 339
What headers and mufflers do you know of?

Maybe these guys will offer you some test mules?? No cats here on either, but I understand you can reflash the dme for RoW software that will disable the CEL issue in it's entirety.

Headers:

http://www.scargoracing.com/html/boxster.htm

and

http://www.turbowerx.com/Porsche_Products/Headers/986_Headers/986_Headers.html
__________________
'13 S - Guards Red / Luxor Beige - Options - Loaded to the Hilt!!

'01 S - Guards Red / Beige - Surrendered - 04.18.12
jwade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 06:18 AM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Glen Allen, ON
Posts: 312
Jake,

I think you will find all of the aftermarket headers designed for the 986 motors marginal for even a stock 3.4 engine in a 986 chassis, certainly for a 3.6 or larger displacement as the actual port sizes on the heads don't even match up. However, the aftermarket stuff for the 987 chassis works nicely and may provide a good place to start from. One caveat, the restriction of placing the cats in the headers makes the primaries too short and thus the 987 designs with the exception of the B&B setup and the custom setups put out by Farnbacher-Loles are not optimal either.

-Todd Holyoak
__________________
Current Cars:
1989 911 Targa
1984 944 Original Owner
1971 911T
tholyoak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 09:55 AM   #9
Registered User
 
edevlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 916
Hey Jake, I have TTP german headers on my 2000 2.7L. I was very impressed by the fit and finish on their gear. I also have a stock muffler from my base boxster if you would like to try it.

Ed

__________________
My Car Webpage

2000 2.7L Boxster 102K; TTP intake, headers, high-flow cats; Dansk high-flow muffler; Autothority ECU chip; TechnoTorque 2; Bilstein coilovers; Racing Dynamics strut brace; stress-bar suspension kit; Aasco lightweight flywheel, B&M short shiftkit; 18" wheels; spare tire delete; OEM GT3 seats; JL audio speakers and subwoofer; Alpine PDX-5/PDX-2 amps; Kenwood DNX8120 CD/DVD/Nav; litronics, deambered
edevlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 01:57 AM   #10
Rennzenn
 
j.fro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,355
Garage
I'll throw a couple of suggestions out there:
GHL muffler - surprised no one mentioned this right off
Borla
I've seen a couple of custom setups that are similar to Borla/GHL that use a pair of straight-through mufflers coming into a pair of 90 degree bends for the tail pipes
Last, but not least, a few of us have modified the stock muffler by making internal cuts in the inlet tubes that allow gasses to bypass chambers inside the muffler and more directly exit the system.

By the way, sure would love to hear what you have to say about software/ECU updates for the M96 platform, and what you use on your updated motors.

Great work, and thank you for sharing your information. I look forward to all of your comments.
j.fro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 05:52 AM   #11
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
Quote:
I'll throw a couple of suggestions out there:
GHL muffler - surprised no one mentioned this right off
Me too.. I am trying to get one of these sent to us for the test, but am not having much luck.

Quote:
Borla
I've seen a couple of custom setups that are similar to Borla/GHL that use a pair of straight-through mufflers coming into a pair of 90 degree bends for the tail pipes
I really like that arrangement, but it takes one stage out of the system, generally that raises peak torque and HP, but doesn't offer much in the way of drive-ability. I'll have to experience this to see for myself and gather the data.

Quote:
Last, but not least, a few of us have modified the stock muffler by making internal cuts in the inlet tubes that allow gasses to bypass chambers inside the muffler and more directly exit the system.
We have as well and I want to see how that effects the systems when compared to stock or these other performance arrangements... I don't believe that a test as extensive and thorough with so many different methods of data acquisition and comparison as what we are doing has ever been performed..

Quote:
By the way, sure would love to hear what you have to say about software/ECU updates for the M96 platform, and what you use on your updated motors.
We have been working with Evolution Motorsports to date and will be testing a few more of their flashes next week. Part of creating a performance combination is effectively tuning it.. EVOMS has been great with their flexability withour program that takes this engine to places many thought it could never go... When we create a worthy engine combination it is then standardized and has it's own ECU flash that can be easily applied without guess work....

ECU manipulation works for otherwse stock cars, add headers and mufflers and the benefits are multiplied, add an induction enhancement and it's multiplied again... Add our displacement enhancements and it's just plain crazy at what the possibilities can be.

Quote:
Great work, and thank you for sharing your information. I look forward to all of your comments.
Sure. Knowledge is power and the key is the education of the following..
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2009, 03:17 PM   #12
Registered User
 
BYprodriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: O.C. CA
Posts: 3,190
Garage
Jake, there is a new company, NHP that makes complete exhaust for the boxster.
I have only seen them on Ebay sold thru Maxspeed Motorsports in NY
BYprodriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2009, 05:53 PM   #13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 7,236
Jake, please make an exhaust system that is louder but doesn't have the NASTY cabin resonance my twin chamber muffler makes.

It gives me a headache with the top up. Ugh!

I'm going to try to do a pedro exhaust bypass on my old factory muffler. If I like the sound it makes and it remains cabin-resonant free, I'm happy to send you my twin chamber muffler I got off a guy on this board named Che (Deluboz Parts).
__________________
'97 Boxster (Black Hole for 42,000 Dead Presidents and counting) - 122k
New motor, transmission, suspension, and on and on and on it goes...
RandallNeighbour is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page